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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
New computer only boots Puppy from live CD
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MrDuckGuy


Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 100
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA, USA

PostPosted: Sun 17 Mar 2019, 18:10    Post subject:  New computer only boots Puppy from live CD
Subject description: But boots Windows from the HD
 

Hello, I just got a used, fairly pristine version
of the computer that I already have been
using as my main computer.

The newer one has a slightly better processor, and
a conventional HDD and it's really new-like. Since I
was about to swap my processor to an i5 from an
i3, and this unit had an i5 and was selling for basically
the same price as the processor itself, it was too
good to be true.

It also came with an AMD video card with a digital
output, and the seller said I should connect
two monitors to it. When I got home there
was no video from the card's output, and after
rebooting around twenty times without any
video output, I opened the case and took out
the card. This was necessary, because the card
interferes with the motherboard's native video.

I think all the rebooting may have corrupted the
HDD.

When I tried to boot with a 'Live' CD, it kept
crashing, after posting with a message that
says it was looking for USB. I tried this with
about five different Live CDs each with
different Puppies.

This is being written with the new computer,
using Tahrpup32v6.06. I'm running the OS
'Live' from an installation CD. The only way I
could get it to boot was to tell the BIOS
to ignore the HDD, So I set the BIOS flags
to only "see" the CD media drive. Now it
boots without any issue.

Screenshot below of the post error I get
with Tahrpup32v6.06 before I disabled the
HDD, The output reads something like:

... Waiting for USB storage ...
Finding puppy main sfs file.
Dumping last lines of /tmp/bootinit.log ...
MENU_MAX_PUPSAVES-
... ... ... ...
*** Error is too critical. dropping out to
console ...

*** To save debug info a partition, type 'debugsave'


The hard drive is causing this. When I run Windows
from this drive, it is functional. I suspect this
is something like a flag that needs to be set
by using GParted?

As always, thanks in advance, Kelikaku B'H.
OutputFromBoot-CriticalError.png
 Description   Output from boot up crash - critical error. B'H.
 Filesize   143.75 KB
 Viewed   264 Time(s)

OutputFromBoot-CriticalError.png

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12022
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 17 Mar 2019, 23:27    Post subject:  

Good chance there is dust bunnies in that CD drive that are making discs hard to read.
Dirty read lens.

Quote:
The only way I
could get it to boot was to tell the BIOS
to ignore the HDD, So I set the BIOS flags
to only "see" the CD media drive. Now it
boots without any issue.

That is about normal to get a live CD to boot.
Every bios is a little different on how it selects what drive to boot from, first.

Usually there is a boot device order setup in the computers bios setup.
Setup the order devices are looked at to boot.
Should be able to put in any order.
Usually the default setup is:
Hard drive.
CD drive.
USB drive.
In that order.
Whatever is the first device, that gets looked at first, for a bootable operating system.
Nothing there, it goes to next device in list.

Most computers have a boot device menu you can access just at startup.
Usually some F key. Like F8, F9, F10, F12.
Depends on the computer.
Mine is F9.
When you press this, a menu of devices pops up.
You select which one to boot from.

Some computers only want one optional device at a time.
Hard drive is main boot device.
So, if live CD is in CD drive.
Do not have a usb drive plugged in.

_________________
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
YaPI(any iso installer) http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107601
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fabrice_035


Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 617
Location: Bretagne / France

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 03:28    Post subject:  

Hello,
I hope I understood everything.
According to the screenshot you left a USB key plugged in? (SDB messages)
For try, if you can, copy puppy_tahr_6.0.6.sfs on sda1 (hdd), remove usb key and boot to cd.

_________________
xenialpup 7.5 / Linux Kernel: 4.4.95 / Window Manager: JWM v2.3.7
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3373
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 08:28    Post subject:  

at your place:

1 I would use an actual version of Puppy (Ubuntu Trusty Tahr did STABLE did come out April 2014, the system is also from 2013!!! Are you not aware how much development and amendment of errors did happen in those more than 5 years?). I always test the newest!

2 I would test if puppy starts RAM only from CD, it is good at the first waiting point to change boots parameters (read using F1 which one are proposed...)

3 other mass memory should not be plugged in (excepted main USB harddisks! Dell, for ex., did use such design on all SX280...)

4 I hope for you the system starts willing RAM only

5 examine your periphery using «gparted»!

6 I assume gparted will find the drives. examine the partitions and the flags of the partitions (boot drive?)

7 test the partition with gparted!

8 using «pmount» after doing above, open sda1 and install the puppy IN FRUGAL MODE!

9 adapt / install the bootloader

10 restart! good luck and enjoy the most modern version of Puppy!
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MrDuckGuy


Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 100
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA, USA

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 12:14    Post subject: Re: New computer only boots Puppy from live CD
Subject description: But boots Windows from the HD
 

fabrice_035 wrote:
... hope I understood ... the screenshot you
left a USB key plugged in ...
Thanks, this really addresses the issue. I
find very confusing things in this output.
I'll explain below.

You can see on the screenshot, it's looking
for a USB drive of some kind, while the tower
had nothing inserted when I first encountered
this. The system was trying to load from a
'live' CD. Not a USB. There was never any
USB plugged in. As well this repeated, in a
few versions of Puppy, using several different
'live' CDs. It kept happening over and over.

This is the kind of output I would only expect
if there was an error in a file on a USB key
that the system needs and is trying to load.
I would expect it only with a USB plugged in.

Which also was, not the first time I booted
it, but the previous times it was booting
there was no video output so I do not know
what would have been on the screen. I
didn't get the video working at first, so the
computer had gone through a lot of
reboot cycles without my having access to
the GUI nor line level commands. All the
first reboots were as a result of 'hard
resets' and might have confounded things,
perhaps?

One of the things that confused me the most
was, why does the output refer to USB? There
was nothing connected.

In any case, since the first post, I've been
keeping the HDD disabled in the BIOS and
have been able to boot from a USB with
several frugal puppies installed. In fact,
I'm posting this message from the new system,
from a pristine frugalinstallation on a USB
key, in its initial run, without any addins
or updates. Seems to be running fine from USB
so far. I've got three frugals on it now,
Tahrpup32v6.0.6, Xenialpup32v7.5uefi, and
Slacko32v6.3.0. I'm probably going to start
dipping my toes into a few 64-bit OSs soon.

Do you have a clue why the system refers to a
USB when nothing was connected?

As always, thanks in advance, Kelikaku B'H.

PS:

Also a strange thing in the BIOS, when I first
opened the boot order menu. What I found
was in the boot order everything was enabled
except for NIC, meaning that [FLOPPY] was
enabled. I have since disabled everything
except USB as the sole boot source.

Another oddity.

I can still boot Windows from the Menu.lst
menu even though the BIOS has the HDD
disabled?

Odd. I would not have assumed that
possible. B'H.
OutputFromBoot-CriticalError001.png
 Description   Waiting for USB storage. There was
nothing (USB) plugged in, and this
was while loading the system from a
'Live' CD. B'H.
 Filesize   58.96 KB
 Viewed   171 Time(s)

OutputFromBoot-CriticalError001.png

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fabrice_035


Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 617
Location: Bretagne / France

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 13:02    Post subject:  

what is the computer model ?
It's like the dvd player is plugged into USB.


_________________
xenialpup 7.5 / Linux Kernel: 4.4.95 / Window Manager: JWM v2.3.7
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MrDuckGuy


Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 100
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA, USA

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 14:03    Post subject: Re: New computer only boots Puppy from live CD
Subject description: But boots Windows from the HD
 

fabrice_035 wrote:
... the computer model ...
like the dvd player is plugged into USB. ...
Agreed. I'd have wondered the same thing,
but I have seen the inside of the computer,
and it's attached to the SATA system in the
motherboard.

PC Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
Product Name: OptiPlex 390

Motherboard Vendor: Dell Inc.
Product Name: 0M5DCD

BIOS Vendor: Dell Inc.
Version: A11
Release Date: 10/14/2013

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2310 CPU
@ 2.90GHz
OPTIPLEX390-fr&rr.png
 Description   DELL Optiplex390, this is the full sized
tower, it came in desktop and mini
tower versions as well. Mine also had
an added AMD video card which I
have removed temporarily. B'H.
 Filesize   128.92 KB
 Viewed   150 Time(s)

OPTIPLEX390-fr&rr.png

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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3373
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 14:43    Post subject: Re: New computer only boots Puppy from live CD
Subject description: But boots Windows from the HD
 

oui wrote:


...

3 other mass memory should not be plugged in (excepted main USB harddisks! Dell, for ex., did use such design on all SX280...)

...



it is an Optiplex but that name does not bring any precision...

MrDuckGuy wrote:


...

but I have seen the inside of the computer,
and it's attached to the SATA system in the
motherboard.
[size=14][b][color=brown]
PC Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
Product Name: OptiPlex 390



it was evident for me after about 20 years with divers DELL's

(your 390 is a beautiful machine, the i5 really runs very fast remastering or you can try to compile yourself all Linux the way nutyx.org does out linuxfromscratch with it; you have certainly enough RAM!)

try what I did recommend to you (I did spend a lot of time to detail step by step what you can / must try before to create more "adventure" on that forum being obstinate Idea (I the time you did write the 2 above messages would I done that what is the right comportment described by me) !

I would recommend you BionicPup64 (I use the precedent version of it! Oh 8.0 !!! it is all a program...)

don't forget to download simultanly the devx file with the development tools! it is important for some jobs and it is better, the version no are really the same!
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12022
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 19:03    Post subject:  

There are two things that tell a computer how to boot.

The bios setup tells the computer what device to boot from.
The boot device order list.

Then on the device the bios says to boot from.
the boot loader boots the operating system.

_________________
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
YaPI(any iso installer) http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107601
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 22:15    Post subject:  

Yes...take out any usb.
Puppy ISO burnt too fast...max should be 32 speed.

I burn it in Windows with Burn CDCC.

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/burncdcc.html

Major Geeks are a safe site.

Or try another Pup.
Radky Stretch is my fave.

k4.1.48-i686-pae for legacy hardware should still work.

stretch-7.5-uefi-k4.1.48.iso ([b]10-Jan-2019)/b])

Chris.
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MrDuckGuy


Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 100
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA, USA

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar 2019, 23:33    Post subject: Re: New computer only boots Puppy from live CD
Subject description: But boots Windows from the HD
 

cthisbear wrote:
Yes...take out any usb.
Puppy ISO burnt too fast...max should be 32 speed.

I burn it in Windows with Burn CDCC.

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/burncdcc.html

Major Geeks are a safe site.

Or try another Pup.
Radky Stretch is my fave.

k4.1.48-i686-pae for legacy hardware should still work.

stretch-7.5-uefi-k4.1.48.iso ([b]10-Jan-2019)/b])

Chris.
I used to do that. I would use either PBurn or Burniso2cd
in the Puppy menu to create a 'Live' CD.

I recently began to save time and blank CDs by doing
something very, very much easier. I create a 'frugal'
folder in one of my disk drives, even a flash drive
works. I give it the title of the OS and version, and
I download the iso that I would normally have burned.

Once the iso is in a folder, I mount it so that all its
contents are visible and accessible. I copy the
necessary files from the mounted iso image into the
new frugal folder. It's easy enough. You can get
away with just copying all the mounted files into
the folder.

Grub4DOS bootloader config, in the Puppy menu
will do the rest. Run that program, and it will find
your new folder and automatically add it to the
menu.lst file. When you reboot, your newly
downloaded OS will be ready to load, from the
Grub4Dos splash screen.

Hope this helps, now no more worrying about
getting a burn correct or ruining a CD-ROM.

I have been doing this for some time now. That's
why when you mentioned that I might have a
corrupted CD, I was not too concerned.

Hope you can try this out, and I know it will
save you a lot of time and also CD-ROMs.

As always, thank you so very much,
Kelikaku -B'H.
burnedCDROM.png
 Description   BURNED another CD-ROM!!! B'H.
 Filesize   142.35 KB
 Viewed   81 Time(s)

burnedCDROM.png

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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3373
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Tue 19 Mar 2019, 18:54    Post subject: Re: New computer only boots Puppy from live CD
Subject description: But boots Windows from the HD
 

MrDuckGuy wrote:
I copy the
necessary files from the mounted iso image into the
new frugal folder. It's easy enough. You can get
away with just copying all the mounted files into
the folder.

Grub4DOS bootloader config, in the Puppy menu
will do the rest. Run that program, and it will find
your new folder and automatically add it to the
menu.lst file. When you reboot, your newly
downloaded OS will be ready to load, from the
Grub4Dos splash screen.


We probably all do that! What are you thinking Laughing

Also can the title of that thread probably be changed into:

[SOLVED] New computer only boots Puppy from live CD

Wink

you boot now from dos4dos Idea from the HD if I understand well your explanations!

greetings!

enjoy Puppy!
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