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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 15:00    Post subject:  

"The wikka is difficult to use, because of the aged references, and that it is not continuously maintained. The wikka will not be improved by adding unrelated material, made by using parts of Puppy names or implementing some small parts of a Puppylinux. Make your own wiki! "



Well Tallboy 2 things anybody can add to the wiki and help with it,
and also reference to Debian dog was already there long before I added anything. Also it is everybody's wiki
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 15:14    Post subject:  

would it be better to use a thread on the forum
(like this one for example)
rather than a wiki

since that is where everyone seems to go
even barry k

people could just post
and that would update the info
without anyone needing to feel pressured

the forum is really the only place i check regularly

wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 15:30    Post subject:  

hey guys

what is the status of the woof-ce distros

what are some good ones being developed

i would like to try them

wanderer
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1372

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 16:56    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
hey guys

what is the status of the woof-ce distros

what are some good ones being developed

i would like to try them

wanderer


If I had to choose one, I think it would be Radky's Dpup Stretch 7.5 http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112125 .

Both of the new Bionics (32 and 64) are also good.
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 17:03    Post subject:  

thanks dancytron

i will try it


wanderer
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 17:07    Post subject:  

The wiki supports the threads you can go there as a starting point and see all the threads related to that topic.

I Have added entry's for corepup Tazpup etc and all references to those projects.

Like I said it belongs to everybody, it is not a replacement for the forum it supports it.

Again if you want it up to date help add and edit - anyone can.

Last edited by darry19662018 on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 18:25; edited 1 time in total
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 17:13    Post subject:  

thanks again darry

i will check it out


wanderer
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 18:28    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
thanks again darry

i will check it out


wanderer


Thanks Wanderer if anything in the Corepup entry isn't right I will correct it.

I have also included Mcorepup under this entry.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1809
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 19:10    Post subject:  

Can I suggest you put a link to the Puppy wikka in your Puppy forum profile signature darry, since you more than anyone seems to have been looking after it, and easy to find it via that link whenever you are discussing it?

I note, by the way, that the http://puppylinux.org site is very out of date: it lists Puppy as being ~100MB, which is no longer true for any other than TazPup! The http://puppylinux.com site seems to be better kept up-to-date more generally.

Also noted, however: https://puppylinux.org allows https but http://puppylinux.com doesn't...

wiak

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Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1809
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 20:04    Post subject:  

It's exciting... Wink

'Someone' suddenly changing things at:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/puppylinux-woof-CE.github.io/tree/master

Looks like the Puppy 'team' has decided to add new team member, and modified wording to replace words 'official puppylinux builds' with 'puppylinux woof builds'.

I gather therefore that the puppy team members are in fact discussing matters of Puppy importance by PM in the background, so maybe some official comment about the fact of there being "Distributions created by members of the Murga Puppy Forum" will be forthcoming along with a decision how that matter will be advertised to newcomers via this thread or anyone elses post, being made sticky, that confirms the truth of the situation in some shape or form that that 'team' find acceptable. Of course that team should be considering the needs of the Dog threads in this forum too, in terms of avoiding newcomer confusion, if they are indeed to be considered the umbrella team for all of us on here (per the Puppy-related status of the Dogs outlined in Puppy Linux website).

Personally, I would like to propose for Fred (fredx181) to represent the DebianDogs in that 'team' and someone else from FatDog (EDIT: just notices jamesbond already on the team), because these Dogs are all very long established here on the forum.

In any case: Will the Dogs get a new mention? Joking. I surely got to satisfy the reputation of evasive/snide/passive-aggressive, but really I am just joking, but not joking about proposing Fred of DebianDogs for the Puppy Family umbrella 'team' - nothing evasive or snide or passive/aggressive about it, despite the accusations and attacks against me. Main thing is the Puppy Forum currently contains what it contains, support threads for various non-pups, whether that is liked by some or all or not; it is just a fact that newcomers should be aware of; Fred may or may not want to or be willing to be a member of the Puppy Family 'team' but the fact of the Dogs' longterm presence on this forum remains.

See attached images.

Hope they fix the difference between:

http://puppylinux.com/download.html

and

http://puppylinux.com/index.html#download

though we can always push an issue per jamesbond useful info post:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1020227#1020227
xendog-20190312125939.jpg
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Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130

Last edited by wiak on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 20:40; edited 5 times in total
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 20:33    Post subject:  

The discussion was done in the open.
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/puppylinux-woof-CE.github.io/issues/30

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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1809
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 20:44    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
The discussion was done in the open.
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/puppylinux-woof-CE.github.io/issues/30


Thank you. Shows you how little I know about.

[EDITED to clear up my saying push-rights when I meant commit-rights and to what resource]

So, per some statements in that thread, is the Puppy 'team' only about those who have 'commit rights' to woof-CE, in which case I guess my proposal for fredx181 wouldn't fit, but who has commit rights to puppy linux website (which declares itself as family including all Dogs)? Yet that discussion is about the Puppy com website; not about woof-CE per se - who has commit rights to the website, which is a Puppy Family website - not just Puppy?

Having now read that discussion, my concern is 'the possibility' that some 'stewards' are biased against the Dogs (in particular DebianDogs) being on the Puppy Forum site. (Outbursts, past and present, have tended to demonstrate that bias, IMO, though I am myself biased against such outbursts though not at all biased against Puppy linux distro itself). I don't think such forum members should have core places on Puppy Family Team (since it includes the Dogs). I'd go with idea for only 01micko and one non-biased deputy (as a stand-in for when 01micko not available) for that Puppy Family team leadership purpose. Woof-CE commit-rights is another matter and only concerns Puppy linux distro itself.

Of course, the fuss that has been made by some over the surely simple facts described in the first post of this thread (and the lack of forum administrator commenting on sticky thread possibility) tends to cement my view of Puppy Linux bias being a problem here. The reality of various small distros being supported via various threads on this forum remains, despite the lack of willingness by some to declare that fact for newcomers.

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Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 21:37    Post subject:  

Now here is an interesting old post (from 2014). Funny thing is, with latest incarnations of fredx181's mklive-stretch script it would be pretty easy to implement. And that would indeed need a different attitude as to what is 'official' in the Puppy Linux Family world:

jamesbond wrote:
Saintless DebianDog's scripts can be made fully automated and incorporated into Woof-CE, making a puppy out of a Debian LiveCD. Iguleder's all-static packdude-based puppy can be merged into Woof-CE, too.

There is room enough for all in Woof-CE.


Now that is the opposite of 'division' and 'separation'; rather that is team-building, and if that mklive-stretch script was incorporated into woof-CE (which it could be) fredx181 really should have a position on that Puppy 'Family' team. That's my proposal anyway. Any seconders?

However, all this is a little off-topic (sorry), though obviously related. The first post of this thread has a much simpler purpose though. It just an attempt to describe the actual current situation regarding what distros have support threads on this forum.

wiak

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Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130

Last edited by wiak on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 12:03; edited 1 time in total
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 22:44    Post subject:  

Great idea Wiak.Smile
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3367
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 22:50    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
So, per some statements in that thread, is the Puppy 'team' only about those who have 'commit rights' to woof-CE,
No. Puppy team is everyone who wants to contribute and improve Puppy Linux. Woof-CE committers are Puppy LInux team which have been trusted to make direct code changes to Woof-CE (which is the "Puppy maker").

Quote:
but who has commit rights to puppy linux website
01micko, mavrothal and me. Because we were the ones authoring it.

Quote:
(which declares itself as family including all Dogs)?

We need to make a distinction of "Puppy Linux" as a distro, and "Puppy LInux as a concept/ideas".

"Puppy Linux" as a distro must come from Woof-CE. There are many of such distros, but they aren't "Puppy Linux family", they are all Puppy LInux proper.

"Puppy LInux family" on the other hand refers to "Puppy Linux" as ideas/concepts.

Now, Puppy LInux website is, was and has always been about Puppy Linux "the distro". Barry doesn't make it easy to access the pages, but here is the relevant statement and links to the original puppylinux.com before the age of the stewards: http://bkhome.org/archive/puppylinux/ (last link at the bottom of the page).

The mention of "Puppy Linux family" is meant to acknowledge that Puppy Linux has grown from mere physical presence of a "distro" into something much larger, as an idea, as a concept. A concept that has been extended, re-implemented, re-thougth, etc so many times in so many different ways, each has its own focus and emphasis (some emphasizing smallness, some emphasizing "old computer" aspects, some emphasizing "easy-for-windows-refugee", some emphasizing "compatibility with parent distro", etc).

The list of distros in this "Puppy LInux family" category is only meant as examples; they're not the official list and it's not meant to promote them.

(This is different from the forum. This forum has always been about something that is Puppy Linux-related stuff. The relationship can be as close or as remote as it could be (e.g. attempting to run PET packages on Ubuntu?), for example. In fact, we even have an off-topic section which talks about thoroughly non-Puppy stuff. So request for re-organise as you will, but those asking for "non-Puppy" stuff to go is irrational and don't learn their history.)

___________________________________


Quote:
Having now read that discussion, my concern is 'the possibility' that some 'stewards' are biased against the Dogs (in particular DebianDogs) being on the Puppy Forum site. (Outbursts, past and present, have tended to demonstrate that bias, IMO, though I am myself biased against such outbursts though not at all biased against Puppy linux distro itself). I don't think such forum members should have core places on Puppy Family Team (since it includes the Dogs).


The Puppy LInux stewards is only responsible for the Puppy Linux "the distro". It has no control nor authority over "Puppy LInux Family" (aka "Puppy Linux the idea/concept") because they're developed independently, and because they're just that, ideas.

Quote:
I'd go with idea for only 01micko and one non-biased deputy (as a stand-in for when 01micko not available) for that Puppy Family team leadership purpose. Woof-CE commit-rights is another matter and only concerns Puppy linux distro itself.
The Puppy Linux "leadership" basically takes care of two things at the moment:
- Woof-CE
- puppylinux.com website.
Both of these are for "Puppy LInux" the distro. So they're one and the same.

As for the "biased steward", I guess you're talking about mavrothal.

I know mavrothal personally. He's a decent, reasonable, and logical person. If he disagrees on something there must be a reason. But I will admit I am not aware of the outburst that you mentioned, though I would allow the one can have outbursts sometime (I know I do).

That being said, mavrothal is a "steward" because he, togeher with 01micko, was the one who started Woof-CE. I'm not sure if you were active in the forum during the speculative days that Barry would step down. During the days that there were no updates and no news from Barry. There was a very long thread about it, everybody talked but nobody took action.

mavrothal cared enough for continued Puppy existence so he took the first step, started Woof-CE. And that's how it all started. He and 01micko made it happen. Barry, seeing the initiative, decided to handover control of Puppy to 01micko. That's how he became a steward.

From all that I've seen so far, mavrothal does not and did not impose his will on the direction of Woof-CE (for or against anything). He is active in Woof-CE but mainly as a committer of last resort, or just as user suggesting improvements things here and there. The same can be said of his activities for Puppy LInux website.

That being said, everyone is entitled to his opinion, and we all can agree to disagree. I don't always agree with mavrothal either (and vice versa) but we get along very well.

Now, I don't know if he's biased again the *Dogs, he might be. But as far as I can tell, this does not affect at all what he's doing in Woof-CE/Puppy Linux.com website, and the way I see it, this what a good steward is all about - one with very strong conviction but detached from his opinions as far as work for the betterment of Puppy is involved.

If there is ever an election for Puppy stewardship, mavrothal will get my vote - not because of he's my friend, but because of the good work that he has done, and because he really cares about Puppy.

Back to topic: For the record, I agree with you about sticky post of an introductory "post" about the various kind of Puppy and Puppy offshots being discussed in this forum. I also agree with wanderer that this sticky should be in the beginner and user section (the two sections where the users post most help questions).

I think we need to add a statement that "due to the variety of Puppy Linux and Puppy LInux-like distros discussed in this forum, please always mention the exact Puppy (or Puppy-like) distro that you use / ask about, along with the version". Or something to that effect.

In fact, those helpers who are actively helping and responding, should have that words as their "signature".

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