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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Distributions created by members of the Puppy Forum
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 05:58    Post subject:  

to prevent wiak from being asked to assume an unmanageable burden

why dont people just add to this thread

like a wiki

so people can know what is available in the puppy universe


wanderer
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 4059
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 06:03    Post subject:  

I have requested a website update:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/puppylinux-woof-CE.github.io/blob/680547971045fd7439c80b8dffb008eb79e69f04/download.md

I've added DPupStretch

Is josejp2424's DPupBuster-7.9.0.2 a Woof-CE build??

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3376
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 06:05    Post subject:  

In case anybody forgets:

puppylinux.com website is hosted on github. Here it is: https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/puppylinux-woof-CE.github.io

The contents are written in markdown format - a human-readable text with easy formatting.

Anyone who wants to propose any content changes are welcome to issue a pull request.

EDIT: I see that peebee has just issued a pull request to update the "Downloads" page of the Puppy distros.

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14484
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 08:21    Post subject:  

jamesbond,

The pull argument is not funny. Looks like a reason to stay lazy, the lot of ya!
As if you people needed a kid tugging on your pants to do the logical thing.
"Lord God, is that possible?" (If such is the case, you guys do need prayers!)

Best regards.

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Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3376
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 10:12    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
"Lord God, is that possible?" (If such is the case, you guys do need prayers!)

No musher0, we need someone who's willing to do the job. The puppylinux.com website languished for years before the switch to github happened.

We set it up in github for the following reasons:
a) free of cost (no need to pay for hosting, etc)
b) free of effort (no need to setup server, no need to maintain server, account security, etc)
c) easy to update (the format is all in text, not HTML or other arcane markup format)
d) version-controlled, we know what has changed over time and we know who changed what (and this information is publicly available - don't even need to login to github to see this).

Quote:
The pull argument is not funny. Looks like a reason to stay lazy, the lot of ya!
As a matter of fact, yes we do it this way because we're lazy. We have other priorities in life besides Puppy. The less time we spent on unnecessary things like maintenance etc, the better.

Quote:
As if you people needed a kid tugging on your pants to do the logical thing.
The logical thing when we're lazy is to let someone else do most of the job for us; and in this case, github, leaving us with the most important task of all: updating the content.

Now, I know that you're allergic to github. That disease is curable, but in case finding the cure is too much hassle, I'll give you another option: please offer us an alternative solution. Preferably a solution that you're prepared to do it yourself, instead of pointing fingers at "someone else" to do it. Preferably a concrete solution, rather than "conceptual" or "in theory" solutions.

Then we can talk. Otherwise, github it is.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3085

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 13:07    Post subject:  

Maybe I miss something but as far as I can tell, and in contrast to what the thread title claims, NO distribution is available on Murga forum.
murga-linux hosts one of (or the only) forum of 3 distributions (per distrowatch - puppy, fatdog, EasyOS), a couple long lasting offerings (dogs, tazpup and the terminated quirky) and some aspiring ones. Most of them with several flavours each. In addition as @ally will tell you, several hundreds derivatives of, or inspired by the above.

So I think this attempt of “cataloguing” what murga hosts simply separates first and second class citizens (puppy/-like offerings)
This, in one hand suppresses interest for anything not in the list and on the other hand elevates interest for (at this time) less popular ones.
And of course, as anything not strictly technically oriented, has the potential of strong feelings and "exchanges".

Thus, I’m afraid I fail to see the real value of this cataloguing other than, “hey, you came here for X but we have many more goodies for you to play with!”
Because when it comes to the actual utility of such a list, I believe that people who come to murga for a(nother) play-puppy know what they are looking for without any “guidance”. And the ones that come looking for help with their pup(-like) system, just ask (in the right or wrong thread Wink )

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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1830
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 16:40    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
Maybe I miss something but as far as I can tell, and in contrast to what the thread title claims, NO distribution is available on Murga forum.


I have modified the title in acknowledgement of the fact that the distributions themselves are offsite.

@mavrothal: You are welcome to your opinion that some distributions are second-class citizens. I don't agree.

It is apparent, from confusion some newcomers have had, that when they visit this site they expect everything to be Puppies or about Puppy distributions.

As you however acknowledge, there are other distributions altogether here that having been developed using members of this forum on this forum are by that history "under the umbrella" of this Puppy linux forum. However, as things continue to stand, these alternatives pretty much lie invisible on the forum unless stumbled upon via browsing. That is clearly unsatisfactory since without long reading of their threads, which first have to be "stumbled upon" no newcomer can be expected to know they are entirely individual distributions and often very different from Puppy. Some of these distributions have been under development for many years and are well-established here (amongst forum members who know about them) aside from their lack of promoted visibility for newcomers.

In particular, FatDog and also the DebianDogs are well established distributions, every bit as much now as Puppy itself. To pretend otherwise, that they are somehow second class citizens, is like hiding ones head in the sand to the reality of the situation. FatDog has been under developement for almost 11 years, and the DebianDogs for well over five years.

The organisation of this forum does not reflect that reality and if the forum itself cannot be renamed/re-organised to reflect that reality of there being more than Puppy on here, then the sort of post I have written at the top of this thread becomes important.

As I said, it is of course up to Puppy Linux to put its own house (puppylinux website) in order in terms of adequately promoting its own offerings. As jamesbond has pointed out that has been provided for via github pull requests, which is excellent IMO. It is up to the maintainers of Puppy therefore to adequately deal with promotion of Puppy's situation of offering countless remasters in addition to woof-CE builds - it is the job of the Puppy stewards to look after the Puppy side of things; obviously that's not my job nor the job of my post!

The post I make at the start of this thread is no more about Puppy or any of the other distributions developed here. I don't try to say what all the available Dogs are - that is up to their own websites; same goes for Puppy, which IMO is of no higher status in terms of being a distribution (albeit a highly respected one having lead the way, in terms of many innovations during its long history); all these distributions are great and worthy of the respect and reasonable promotion we hopefully give them.

wiak

EDIT: And I have already indicated that it is not the intention of my post to catalogue all the tons of distributions, so talking about my post being an attempt to "catalogue" is just incorrect anyway. Puppy has to catalogue its own distributions at its official website; the Dogs have to catalogue their own distributions at their websites.

Last edited by wiak on Sun 03 Mar 2019, 17:30; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1830
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 16:55    Post subject:  

I have now PM'd Flash to ask for this thread to be made sticky. If it doesn't prove useful it will nevertheless cause no harm, unless it is considered harmful to acknowledge the longterm existence of the various Dogs on this forum. Personally I am a strong believer in user-choice.

wiak
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 17:00    Post subject:  

I for one feel this thread is very useful and informative

I have been around a while
but I cant keep up
with the myriad of puppy projects

most of what is on this thread I don't know

a newbe would be completely lost

now one can just read this thread
and get a pretty good idea of what is out there

thanks wiak for doing this

but as I said
everyone should post the information that they think is important
so things can be kept up to date
without all the burden falling on wiak

I will be reading this thread daily

wanderer
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3085

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 17:29    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
@mavrothal: You are welcome to your opinion that some distributions are second-class citizens. I don't agree

Actually, I think and said quite the opposite! Not sure why is not clear to you.
In contrast as you say in your post all this cataloguing is indeed just to provide more visibility to specific efforts.
Is OK for a developer to promote the distro of choice but I still do not see any value in this selective cataloguing in the expense of all the rest, for the reason I just said above.
I did not hear anything to the opposite yet.
Only that debian dogs deserve more visibility and acknowledgment.
This is fine, but let's be clear about it.

Latter: Oh and the title is still misleading. No distribution is available through this forum. Try "Major distributions supported". Since "Major distributions" is the real issue here looks nice to be accurate at least.

Last edited by mavrothal on Sun 03 Mar 2019, 17:37; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1830
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 17:34    Post subject:  

@mavrothal: Our posts crossed.

wiak wrote:
And I have already indicated that it is not the intention of my post to catalogue all the tons of distributions, so talking about my post being an attempt to "catalogue" is just incorrect anyway. Puppy has to catalogue its own distributions at its official website; the Dogs have to catalogue their own distributions at their websites.


I am happy to hear I misunderstood thinking you were classing others as second class citizens. I certainly believe they deserve equal visibility on this their forum. (EDIT:) If denied equal visibility these others-than-Puppy distributions are certainly being treated as second class citizens. Proper freedom of choice needs equal visibility (to all people, including newcomers) else that freedom is being resisted/hampered.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1830
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 17:49    Post subject:  

Mavrothal, if you don't like or accept these other distributions being part of this forum then say so directly. If you wish to make a case for their removal, say so, but my post at the top of this thread is made on the basis that these distributions exist on this forum and thus deserve equal respect and visibility.

mavrothal wrote:
Oh and the title is still misleading. No distribution is available through this forum.


via (meaning): "travelling through (a place) en route to a destination"; "going through or stopping at a place on the way to another place" (Cambridge dictionary).

Downloads should be available at the distributions official website. You are nit-picking for some reason or other, and I disagree with your nit-picking view [nit-picking: "engage in fussy or pedantic fault-finding"].

Last edited by wiak on Sun 03 Mar 2019, 18:01; edited 6 times in total
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 17:51    Post subject:  

I would like to see
all
puppy and non puppy based
old and new
distros
listed and reviewed here

I am just as confused
with the puppy offerings
as I am with the non puppy offerings

wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 18:03    Post subject:  

I understand and empathize

that many people
especially some of the puppy gurus
would be offended
by non puppy based projects
being allowed on this forum

but no offense was intended

at least in my case
I wish to add to puppy
not subtract from it

it is up to the forum owner
to ask the non puppy based projects to leave
and since he has not done that
we all probably should make the best of things

personally I think that its a good thing
to have more not fewer ideas available

and if I read things correctly
I think barry k has said as much

barring changing the forum structure
since this appears to be very difficult

perhaps non puppy based projects
could voluntarily use the projects subforum

I would like to know what everyone's opinion is on this

wanderer
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1830
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 18:16    Post subject:  

By the way, in case anyone thinks I started this thread because only I feel there is a longtime problem, then I should remark that that is not the case. I made the post in response to the concerns of others:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1019934#1019934

@wanderer: I don't understand what you mean by the "project's subforum". Also that kind of discussion fits more into that thread above, which discusses solutions to the issues identified.

My post at the top of this thread is written and exists anyway - whether Flash agrees to make it sticky or not (though I cannot see why it couldn't be made sticky since it hardly does any damage and maybe serves a good purpose).

Last edited by wiak on Sun 03 Mar 2019, 18:21; edited 1 time in total
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