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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Puppy router?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14401
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec 2018, 14:25    Post subject:  Puppy router?
Subject description: Could save an old PC from being dumped in a land fill and... save you money.
 

Moderator:
please move this thread if this is the wrong section for it.
TIA.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello all.

I just did a search on keyword "router" in our thread titles, and the
newest one dates back to 2010. Plus, none answers my question:

Would anyone know if a "Puppy Router" has been attempted, to
transform an old PC into a router?

I read in this article that there are a number of specialized
Linux distros that already do this.

It would certainly be economical, given that routers cost from $70 to
$390 at Walmart (prices from other stores welcome)
AND
ecological -- since we would be recycling an old PC.

Also, if there was a "Puppy Router", it would give us a bit more visibility
in the outside world.

Any hints or pointers welcome. (Telecomm is one of my weak spots,
which is why I'm asking.)

TIA
~~~~~~~~~

General search on this topic:
https://www.ask.com/web?qsrc=1&o=0&l=dir&q=transform+old+PC+into+a+router&qo=serpSearchTopBox

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~~~~~~~~~~
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I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1262
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec 2018, 14:36    Post subject:  

I am using an 2004 desktop to route web traffic using Hiawatha as reverse proxy for several machines. I had a setup once that could be used as a router from a bridged DSL modem....but that was awhile ago and I only vaguely remember the steps I did to set it up. I used a Puppy Linux UPUP 3.9.9.2 Raring Ringtail to do it and a really old Gateway machine.

this might be a way to start experimenting running a desktop machine as a router and having some success.....

https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/X86

https://zeroshell.org/

keep us posted on how you make out!! please.....
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec 2018, 14:54    Post subject:  

It can be done. For instance iptables lets you set forwarding rules. If want want NAT type functionality you need to compile the ipt_MASQUERADE kernal module. See the shareinternet pet:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=843783&sid=496f0e27e98db4872916a671652c71ea

There are also some useful pets here for puppylinux such as a Wi-Fi access point pets:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68127

If one didn't plan to leave their computer on all the time I wouldn't do this, instead I'd use something like a banana pi. However, if one is running some type of server software they might have their computer on all the time anyway.

Also if one is using their PC as a router they might want to add some other tech on top of this like cjdns or some kind of VPN.

Some fun stuff one might want to try if they are using puppylinux as a router is working with multiple routing tables:
http://www.rjsystems.nl/en/2100-adv-routing.php

Or bridging networks:
http://www.pearltrees.com/s243a/bridg-utils/id14827046

**Topics I should but didn't discuss: namesevers, dnscaches, etc
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14401
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec 2018, 17:19    Post subject:  

Thanks rockedge and s243a for your replies.

Much appreciated.

Since you guys know this kind of thing, please let yourselves loose on
the subject!!! Very Happy And everybody else who's a bit of an expert on this! Smile

As I said telecomm is not my strong point. But I'd potentially be the first
user if there was a Puppy Router!

Plus imagine the shiny golden letters on a Times Square or
Piccadilly Square marquise:

P-U-P-P-Y-L-I-N-U-X__R-O-U-T-E-R

Wink

BFN.

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I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 1418
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec 2018, 18:22    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:

Quote:
It would certainly be economical,


Probably not. Sure the upfront cost would be essentially zero vs your quoted prices, but I'm pretty certain the power usage of an old PC is much, much more than a router. You'd quickly consume the difference, especially vs a cheaper router.
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nosystemdthanks


Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 694

PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec 2018, 18:44    Post subject:  

p310don wrote:
I'm pretty certain the power usage of an old PC is much, much more than a router.


indeed, this is what dd-wrt is for. the purpose of a puppy router would be that its (debatably) easier to setup and customise a router based on puppy (debatable unless someones done enough of the hard work already) but it probably isnt going to save you money.

even if you go all the way back to the first version of puppy https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Legacy_Builds its going to demand more resources than dd-wrt likely will.

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14401
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 15 Dec 2018, 23:49    Post subject:  

Hello nosystemdthanks and all.

We're lucky in this province to have probably the cheapest kw/h in North
America, but you still have a point.

The guys who install a NAS all have deep pockets, then? NAS relies on a
router, yes? (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

~~~~~~~~~

On a tangent subject, for the naive user, routers and modems carry a
halo of myths with them.

I was told by the Videotron technician who installed the company modem
(a ARRIS) not to attach a router to it.

So 5 years later, when I received a Cisco phone router from this other
company offering phone service at 13$ less a month. For a couple of
days, I was paralyzed.

Then I looked closely at the thing and realized it had a computer port.
So it's modem to phone router to computer
-- and modem to phone router to phone.

Like the modem is on the top of the hill and the router in on a terrace
below it. And there could be other terraces belong that router. Visually:
Machupichu, or Gardens of Babylon. It helps me to see it that way. May
help others, who knows?

So you go ahead and break the 1st company's taboo, and you have a
phone line 13$ cheaper a month.

Sorry if this sounds like nonsense. But now I can't see how a Puppy
Router would fit on one of those "terraces", either.

BFN.

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I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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nosystemdthanks


Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 694

PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2018, 00:07    Post subject:  

nas is storage. routers are routers.

a raspberry pi can be a router too. but the network equipment in most of those are too underpowered to make a good router. even compared to a real one.

nas really has nothing to do with your original question, nor the answers we gave.

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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3542

PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2018, 09:40    Post subject:  

p310don wrote:
musher0 wrote:
Quote:
It would certainly be economical,

Probably not. Sure the upfront cost would be essentially zero vs your quoted prices, but I'm pretty certain the power usage of an old PC is much, much more than a router. You'd quickly consume the difference, especially vs a cheaper router.

Guesstimating, a conventional router might be of the order 4w and a headless otherwise landfill PC acquired for nowt 5 times that (20w). 250 hours for a off-shelf router to burn a Kw/hour; So in a year, 365 days x 24 hours/day = 8760 hours, with 250 hours per kw = 35 Kw/hours per year for a conventional router, and 5 times that (175Kw/hours per year) for a headless PC running as a router. 140 kw/hours per year more cost for the PC as a router compared to a off-shelf router, at what, 20 cents/pence per kwH = 28 $/£ per year. For a typical low end conventional router that might compare in price (power saving after a year pays for the router). For a higher end 150 $/£ router = a 5 year break-even.

Putting aside whether its sensible or not to use a PC router to provide additional services/functions, if that PC router were also used as a always on web server and/or file server ... whatever, then compared to a conventional router + PC as web server setup the power costs would tend to be lower for the PC as router and web server setup.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12714
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2018, 14:02    Post subject:  

And you would need a second Ethernet card. And a switch. And a compatible WiFi card.

Or you can buy a surplus N-mode router for under $20.
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1262
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2018, 15:34    Post subject:  

Quote:
Or you can buy a surplus N-mode router for under $20.


just saw a NETGEAR router WIFI capable on a clearance shelf for 70% off the price at a one the big box stores....one could walk out with the new router for like $6....and I have a little modem that can be bridged...it cost around $20 new..... I just bricked a Link-sys router trying to flash Tomato to it.....something went south... but I pulled that thing out of a bin at the town dump Still not a problem...I stripped the wifi antenna out and attached it to my Drone's controller and increased the range of the drone to 1000ft with a SYMA X5C-Explorer 1 drone
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