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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Solved:Pup Version+Persistence
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tosim

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat 22 Sep 2018, 11:00    Post subject:  Solved:Pup Version+Persistence
Subject description: Which do you recommend?
 

Am not Linux newbie, but am new to Puppy. Presently,on MultiBoot w/SDHC 32GB card, am trying out 3 versions:
MacPup 550, XenialPup-7.5uefi, Upupbb-18.05+10
Two items to question:
Persistence-How many GB's(if any), do you recommend be set for each OS?
Main Pup to use-I realize that is my choice to make, but I'd like some opinions from users, please.
BTW-Been toying with Linux since1999-started with Knoppix, distro hopped, finally settled with Mint-MATE,64b in about 2009.
Once again, please, any opinions gratefully accepted.

Last edited by tosim on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 10:46; edited 1 time in total
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1305

PostPosted: Sat 22 Sep 2018, 13:50    Post subject: Re: Pup Version+Persistence
Subject description: Which do you recommend?
 

tosim wrote:
Am not Linux newbie, but am new to Puppy. Presently,on MultiBoot w/SDHC 32GB card, am trying out 3 versions:
MacPup 550, XenialPup-7.5uefi, Upupbb-18.05+10
Two items to question:
Persistence-How many GB's(if any), do you recommend be set for each OS?
Main Pup to use-I realize that is my choice to make, but I'd like some opinions from users, please.
BTW-Been toying with Linux since1999-started with Knoppix, distro hopped, finally settled with Mint-MATE,64b in about 2009.
Once again, please, any opinions gratefully accepted.


16 to 32GB is usually plenty of storage for a puppylinux system. I say this not because puppy needs this much space but because it is pretty cheap to by a 16 to 32GB USB stick and one might find 8GB limiting depending on what they want to put on their puppylinux system (e.g. music or videos).

That said don't create separate particans for puppylinux, instead use either save files or save folders. If you start with a save file you'll probably start with about a 500mB save file. Don't increase the size much more than this if you don't need to because it will slow down boot times. Remember that things can be stored outside of the save file. For instance one can symbolically link the downloads folder or browser cache folders to outside of the save file. Also SFSs can be stored outside the save file and loaded as needed without increasing the size of the save file.

A good system that uses SFS based applications and minimizes what is kept in the save file is LazyPups (AKA RSH, AKA ITSMERSH), LazyPup/T.O.P.P.L.E.S.S/N.E.M.E.S.I.S. system. N.E.M.E.S.I.S. being the newest version.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11367
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 23 Sep 2018, 00:42    Post subject:  

What you are doing is what you need to do.
Try some of the Puppy versions and see what you like.
Each version is a little different.

If you do frugal installs of Puppy.
That is the best way to install Puppy.
The install needs about 300 to 500 MB of space.
Whatever you want to add to Puppy, is what determines how much space you need for that added stuff.

Frugal installs are everything in Puppy installed into a folder.
Only need one partition and any number of Puppy frugal installs on that one partition.
Each one in it's own folder.
If partition is formatted ext 3 or 4.
Puppy normally saves anything added to Puppy in a save folder or a save file.
If format is a Windows format only save can be a save file.
A save file is a set size you pick it to be when you make it.
A save folder is a folder that auto adjusts in size.
So, Linux formats are better to use. (ext 3 or 4)

The computers hardware can help decide what Puppy is best. No one Puppy version can support all computer hardware, but one of them will support your computer.

The newest Puppies have the most recent improvements to Puppy. They have the newer Linux kernels and support for the newest/newer hardware.

How Puppy works:
http://bkhome.org/archive/puppylinux/development/howpuppyworks.html

Puppy does a lot of things the Puppy way.
So forget the normal Linux ways you have known.

We are Puppy
Resistance is futile!

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2833
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 23 Sep 2018, 11:13    Post subject:  

Hi tosim,

As bigpup said, "Puppy does a lot of things the Puppy way. So forget the normal Linux ways you have known."

One of those things is "persistence". Puppies save settings, configurations, and additional applications installed in a SaveFile (of fixed size you can later increase) or a SaveFolder which automatically will expand to the full extent of your available storage space on its partition as you install stuff. A SaveFolder can only be used on Linux formatted partitions and is a more recent development than MacPup which AFAIK can't use it. The thing is that Puppies, while they can be run as your only OS, are designed to "co-exist" on the same partition as one other "Full" system and/or as many Frugally installed Puppies as you care to have there. That's where the name Frugal comes from -- it frugally uses your storage medium.

Only a "Full" installed Puppy requires its own partition. Both Frugal and Full Puppies offer the same operating system. Frugal is NOT a cut-down version. A Full install was developed when computers typically had less than 512 Mbs of RAM and weak-by-today's standard CPUs. It is only recommended for such systems or if you intend to compile applications. It gains a slight advantage in speed --on current computers you won't notice it except if you compile applications-- but sacrifices many of a Frugal installed Puppy's advantages; not the least of which are (a) use of SFSes -- applications you load/unload, not install, so you can try a new version without overwriting the old, and which even when load require almost no RAM unless in use; and (b) ease of backing up your system so you can recover if there's a problem or setting up more than one way to efficiently run the same Puppy --such as a one version focused on graphics, a different version on testing applications.

As mentioned above SaveFolders can only be used from a Linux formatted partition. While I prefer SaveFiles, running Puppies from a Linux formatted partition has other advantages. On the other hand, if I'm going to use a USB-device both for Puppies and also with Windows --for example to transfer stuff to a Windows computer-- Windows can not by default read Linux formatted partitions and if the first partition is Linux won't recognize following Fat32 or NTFS partitions. So what I do is partition the USB-device to provide a Fat32 first partition which will hold the boot-loader and such storage-while-transporting space as I think I'll need, and a 2nd Linux formatted partition to hold Puppies and the datafiles you create.

The easiest way to do Frugal Installs of one or more Puppies to a USB-device is while running another Puppy from any other storage medium.

(1) Boot into Puppy. (Optionally) format the USB-device using Menu>System>gparted. Before closing gparted, remember to set the boot flag of the 1st partition. Do this even if you are not formatting.
(2) Right-Click the icon for the (newly formatted) partition/or drive; select New>Directory; give it a name, such as Xenialpup. Right-click the folder you just created to open a window to it.
(3) Right-Click the (Xenial)pup ISO to open it. From the window which opened Right-Click an empty space; then hold-down the Ctlr-Key while pressing the "a" Key. That will select all files in that window. Place your mouse-cursor on any file, Press, Hold then drag that file into the Xenialpup folder on the USB-device. Select copy. All the selected files will be copied. (Some aren't needed, but they are small, can be deleted after you found out which ARE needed, and the object here is "quick and easy").
(4) Repeat steps "2" and "3" to add other Puppies.
(5) Unmount the USB-device --Right-click the desktop drive icon and select unmount. Grub4dos can't write to mounted partitions.
(6) Run Menu>System>grub4dos and select the USB-Device as the location where grub4dos is to install itself.
Grub4dos will create a boot menu from which you can boot into any Puppy located on the USB-Device (and if you didn't select "Search only this device" while running grub4dos any system on your computer).

Or you may want to consider gyro's Puppy frugal installer v0.3 just published today: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1005485#1005485

Last edited by mikeslr on Sun 23 Sep 2018, 19:43; edited 1 time in total
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2833
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 23 Sep 2018, 11:51    Post subject: Am alternate Puppy to Consider  

Hi again,

I take your sentences "Main Pup to use-I realize that is my choice to make, but I'd like some opinions from users, please." and "Once again, please, any opinions gratefully accepted" as seeking advice regarding alternates to the three Puppies you mentioned.

Several of us who run multiple Puppies, consider Slacko 5.7 as 'the work-horse to saddle-up' when you just want to get things done. I don't recall anyone ever complaining about it not functioning on any computer. Recently, Sailor Enceladus published a remaster, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=976794#976794 updating its security and some of its main components. There is a wealth of software applications which it can use OOTB, and you'll find instructions regarding how to install newer applications such as Firefox Quantum.

If you like the look of macPup, you may be able to install Wbar. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=706084#706084. I think it will work from the implications on the following link, but untested by me. I know that you can install OpenboxPlus, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=703730#703730 together with the themes and such from that post. LxPanel, which comes with the OpenboxPlus application, can be configured similar to wbar.
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tosim

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue 25 Sep 2018, 10:08    Post subject: Replying to All bove
Subject description: Pup Version+Persistence
 

Thank you all for your VERY informative responses. So far, after checking out my above pups, and several others, I have "whittled down" to the following:
Stretch(Deb9.5),LX Bionic18.05,Macpup550,and uPupBB18.05.
For the meantime, I'll leave these 4 on my "MultibootUSB" 32GB flash card, and play with each one, in depth, until I decide. However, after so many years of Linux Mint-MATE, I will keep that as my main OS.
ATTN: mikeslr & Sailor Enceladus-I will try out the Slacko you recommended.
Again, THANK YOU ALL.
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tosim

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep 2018, 11:13    Post subject: Pup Version+Persistence
Subject description: Which one?
 

In what seems to be my "never ending" search for which Pup I would prefer using(along with my Mint-MATE, of course), I have checked out Slacko. So far, I think I prefer the 1.Dpup Stretch7.5, 2.uPupBB18.5+15, 3.Slacko7.0; in that order.
As I wrote before, thank you all for your GREAT assistance.
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tosim

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec 2018, 12:13    Post subject: Pup Version+Persistence
Subject description: Which one?
 

Well, after several months of trying, and retrying , many, many, puppy versions, I have settled on uPupBB,18.05(currently v.20). I have sure learned a lot, both from playing with so many different versions, and reading a lot in the discussion forums. Also, once again, MANY THANKS, to all who responded to my pleas for help. It's been very informative, and I will keep on learning, I hope!
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2833
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec 2018, 20:51    Post subject:  

Thank you, tosim, for reporting. Peebee will be pleased to learn that his efforts stack up well against other Puppies.

By the way, if your computer is a Laptop and you have the time, could you post your experiences and recommendations to this thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51474&start=330. Eventually, it will be added to the database here, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51474&start=330 and help others with the same or similar computer.
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