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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Looking for smallest newer Distro of Puppy
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Goodnight

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2018, 01:31    Post subject:  Looking for smallest newer Distro of Puppy
Subject description: Smallest new distro of Puppy
 

I remember Puppy v 1.x from years ago.

Seeking a newer version to run as a live CD.

Looking for a small install and don't need fancy word processing, spreadsheets, or database management or server software included.

This will run on newer hardware so that's not an issue. Wire internet is required.

Is 64bit version 7.5 without Libre available?

If so, do you have a link?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11257
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2018, 03:18    Post subject:  

Xenialpup64 7.5
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-xenial/64/xenialpup64-7.5-uefi.iso
It does not come with LibreOffice installed.
It only has a menu entry in Documents that will allow you to install LibreOffice.
Quote:
This will run on newer hardware so that's not an issue
.
Well, that depends on how new the hardware is.
The newest versions of Puppy only have the needed drivers, Linux kernel modules, support programs for the newest hardware.

Xenialpup64 7.5 iso is around 330MB.
Code in a 64 bit OS is bigger in size, just because it is 64 bit.
That is bigger than what Puppy was in the past, but come on, 330MB is small for a complete well featured OS.
Most of the bigger size is caused by the Linux Kernel just getting bigger.
Also, a lot of the normal Puppy programs have gotten bigger with new improvements, bug fixes, features, etc....

All the stripped down versions of Puppy are maybe 100 MB smaller. Big deal!
Not having the items you list would probably give you a 50MB smaller Puppy.

Xenialpup64 7.5 will install to a CD with no problem.
The full version of Xenialpup64 7.5 will give you best chance of working on many different computers.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Goodnight

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2018, 10:23    Post subject:  

Thank you. That's what I need to know.

Will go with v. 7.5. Smile
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2773
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2018, 10:42    Post subject:  

Ditto bigpup.

The 100 Mb Puppies were created when hardware was expensive and commonly computers were sold with less than 512 Mbs of RAM and less than 100 Gbs of Hard-drive. The Websites were primarily Text with an occasional Graphic. Opera 12.16 came in a package of about 13 Mbs. The SFS package for today's Google-Chrome is 69 Mbs. The package for firefox quantum is 56 mbs. You'll need one or the other, or something like them maybe a little bit smaller to access today's graphic rich websites.

"Newer computers" commonly have 4 Gbs of RAM and over 500 Gbs of storage. If you compare the ratio of today's Puppies against the commonly available computer resources with the "old" Puppies against the then commonly available resources, you'll find that "in comparison" today's Puppies are actually "smaller".

They are certainly smaller than Windows 10, or Linux distros like Ubuntu whose ISOs take up about 1.8 Gbs.

You can still use older, 32-bit Puppies such as Precise, or recent remasters of older Puppies such as Sailor Enceladus' Slacko 5.7.1. As downloaded they are fine. I consider the later my "work-horse" to be booted into when I just want to get things done. But by the time you've installed components necessary to deal with today's graphic rich web, It really won't use significantly less hard-drive than Xenialpup64. Perhaps it will require a little less RAM to be responsive.
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Goodnight

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2018, 15:40    Post subject:  

Is there a Xenialpup64 7.5 version that comes with Firefox and/or Chromium rather than Pale Moon?
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2018, 16:23    Post subject:  

Goodnight wrote:
Is there a Xenialpup64 7.5 version that comes with Firefox and/or Chromium rather than Pale Moon?


No, but there is a good portable version of Firefox with the sound fix included.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112376

You can literally copy it anywhere and it will work.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2773
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2018, 18:07    Post subject:  

If you want to you can place the firefox folder in /opt and use the menu pet Mike Walsh provided from the link dancytron gave. I prefer to run it from /mnt/home. See this post about creating a menu entry and my reasons for not using /opt: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1009229#1009229

Alternatively, you can probably download Mike Walsh's pet, use Menu>Utility>UExtract to deconstruct it, edit the path to wherever you located the firefox folder and "dir2pet" the modified folder.

About Chromium: peebee provides that application as an SFS. SFSes are not installed. You place them at /mnt/home and load/unload them via Right-Click>SFS-Load or via Menu>Setup>SFS Load on the Fly. Unfortunately, peebee provides them primarily for LxPups and I'm never sure which will, or won't, run under other Puppies.

You'll find Google-Chrome and several Chrome Clones --SWIron, Slimjet, I think Vivaldi-- in the Browser & Internet Section: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=53. All are SFSes, and all 'run as spot'. So if you're still interested, look for posts discussing what that means, and --if not Chrome, itself, where its included-- a pet Mike Walsh provided named 'spot2root'. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=985040#985040

I rather like SWIron --even less prone to "call-home" than Chromium. Following the links, you'll find Mike Walsh's latest version here: https://yadi.sk/d/_S5b4g7tpcyZn --and I see that there's pet so you can install it if you prefer.
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Goodnight

Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2018, 20:19    Post subject:  

Edited to remove the question asked. Someone else found two iso burners that still offer the option to either "continue multisession" disc or to "finalize disc" option.

That appears to be what we need for Puppy. The burners I used simply didn't have those options or I couldn't find them. Hence all the Puppy Live DVDs I burned were "closed" and could not save live session information from the Puppy sessions.

===============================================

Mods - please move or delete this post if it is not appropriate for this sub-forum.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11257
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Nov 2018, 02:23    Post subject:  

Goodnight wrote:
Is there a Xenialpup64 7.5 version that comes with Firefox and/or Chromium rather than Pale Moon?

On desktop is Quickpet icon
Quickpet>Browsers has these to download and install.

Know this, Palemoon is developed by people that worked on Firefox, but did not like the way it was being developed.
They felt there was a better way to do things.

It is close to Firefox, but does not have the constant problems Firefox seems to have every time it has a new version.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4365
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Wed 07 Nov 2018, 08:11    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
The 100 Mb Puppies were created when hardware was expensive and commonly computers were sold with less than 512 Mbs of RAM and less than 100 Gbs of Hard-drive. The Websites were primarily Text with an occasional Graphic. Opera 12.16 came in a package of about 13 Mbs. The SFS package for today's Google-Chrome is 69 Mbs. The package for firefox quantum is 56 mbs. You'll need one or the other, or something like them maybe a little bit smaller to access today's graphic rich websites.


Mm-hm. 69 MB in package form.....and (currently) about 213 MB installed (or 'loaded'). That's getting humungous; the extra bits'n'bobs I've added to it, along with the self-contained libs courtesy of battleshooter, only account for around 10-12% of that.....


Mike. Wink

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2773
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 07 Nov 2018, 09:42    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
Mm-hm. 69 MB in package form.....and (currently) about 213 MB installed (or 'loaded').


That 'about 3 X' package size to installed package size has long been the ratio when gz compression is used. Tighter compression can be used to reduce the footprint on storage, but at the expense of slower load-time.

But the installed size is misleading when considering the effect of a packages' size on RAM usage. AFAIK, unless the "copy" argument is used as a boot parameter, not all of a package's files will be copied into and, thus, use RAM --well, at least not until needed and called. Smile -- which, with web-browsers seems to be soon, and often. Crying or Very sad
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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8707
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu 08 Nov 2018, 07:36    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Xenialpup64 7.5 iso is around 330MB.


My EasyOS 0.9.7 includes LibreOffice, Scribus (desktop publisher), Inkscape (the full one), Gimp, Dia, SeaMonkey, the download is 399.9MB.

...so, the size creeps up when everything is thrown in, but as stated, it isn't such an issue anymore.

Not a live-CD though, only for a usb-stick.

My Chromium PET is 87.3MB! Big, but it is only gzip compressed. I am intending to convert it to a SFS for the next release, going over to using SFSs more.

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
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Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 08 Nov 2018, 09:33    Post subject:  

Hello all.

IMO, although for a distro a small size/usefulness ratio is not technically
needed anymore, it is still proof of mastery on the part of the developer(s).

TWYL.

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov 2018, 04:36    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Hello all.

IMO, although for a distro a small size/usefulness ratio is not technically
needed anymore, it is still proof of mastery on the part of the developer(s).

TWYL.


Some people here are still running machines with old hardware. Say that one has a 1gB ram system and puppy is running in ram; then the newsest versions of puppy would take up 1/3 of that ram!

Also what if for some reason I want to run several operating machines on the same machine at once in a virtual box. Then size will certainly matter!
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov 2018, 14:58    Post subject:  

Good points, s243a. This is where the ability to use Puppies as Frugal/Co-existent really proves its worth; and Puppy's [unlike Ubuntu's] culture of continuing to support "old" versions proves its worth. With the exception of accessing websites which may demand the most recent --and most resource consuming-- web-browsers, there's really little which can't be accomplished with older Puppies such as wary, racy --and its Saluki/Carolina derivatives-- Lucid and Slackos 5.3 thru 5.7(.1). Their employment of smaller (albeit, older) libraries translate to smaller demands on available RAM.

So, too does Puppies modular builds prove its worth. Although other's may differ, IMHO about the only actual draw-back in using older Puppies and older applications are that they may provide the opportunity for malware to infect one's OS. The more theoretical than actual threats of spectre and meltdown can be mitigated by replacing old kernels and zdrv.sfs with a kernel and zdrv.sfs providing such mitigation. These newer kernels do not, themselves, significantly increase RAM demands; nor do they require that only the newer, larger libraries be used.

Replacing kernels is easy if a Puppy's ISO provided a separate zdrv.sfs. If not, remastering can provide that.

Web-browsers built as SFSes and portables, the latter located outside "puppy-space", e.g. on /mnt/home, can be run under several different Puppies; and --untested-- I would think simultaneously if those Puppies were running in virtual boxes. Some builds contain necessary libraries to enable access to websites which demand them. Others probably could be constructed to do so. Such newer/larger libraries would only place demands on a computer's resources when the application, itself, was in use.

About the only "security" concern which might take some doing are to find, or compile, appropriate internet related applications such as openssl and wpasupplicant.

However, also keep in mind the adage "Time is money". Before undertaking the effort to "modernize" an old Puppy, it may be worth while to determine if the amount of RAM currently on one's computer is the maximum that computer can use. The fact that RAM, today, can be manufactured inexpensively may have had the effect that RAM updates for one's computer are also inexpensive.

Even I, known for "being all thumbs", have found it easy to install RAM into computers --even small netbooks. Youtube videos show how in general; perhaps even for one's particular computer.
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