corepup

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wanderer · #741 Post by **wanderer** » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 21:53

very cool rockedge

wanderer

nosystemdthanks · #742 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 22:05

thats fantastic. id like to know what the url for the tor browser is-- i can find it myself, i suspect you already have it though. i know the tor-project site and thats the first place id look.

also if you modify code from mcorepup, you can use it (and reuse it) under any license you like. the cc0 i released my code under is the most permissive "license" (waiver) in the world. its gpl-compatible, after careful review from the fsf.

however if you write code that could be useful to add to mcorepup, and youre comfortable using the same license (cc0) then paste the snippet here, or on the corepup forum, or a code repo such as notabug or framagit (i will also accept code from other repos, those are two good examples.)

even if its just a trivial snippet to add a package, it will save me the trouble of redoing that part.

if its a custom thing for you, i will add it under the rockedge profile. if its adding a package, such as tor browser, i will add it under the torbrowser profile and put # rockedge next to it, to give you credit and make it easier for people to add it.

if i make changes to improve it, i will call it torbrowser and add # rockedge figosdev to give us both credit.

if people make changes to my code, i definitely prefer they take credit for their changes. i would rather people not change my code and then saddle me with the blame for it, thanks.

(your code could very well be better than mine, it goes both ways though. if i change your code i will try as a rule to take credit for the changes, so you dont get blamed for them.)

please note that cc0 is very permissive-- it does not require attribution, like public domain it is "no rights reserved."

so (for you or anybody else considering contributing to mcorepup) if i have to write the torbrowser package snippet myself, i am happy to do that.

and since cc0 is compatible with virtually everything, if people want to make a fork of mcorepup and work on that under their own favourite license, i have designed mkfigos and mcorepup for exactly that-- you are welcome to make it your own, putting your derivative under the mit/x11 license or gpl 2 or 3, or whatever.

that means that code can flow directly from mcorepup to your fork, but it cant flow from your fork to mcorepup. all your changes would be under gpl 3, for example.

some changes (such as altering a url) are trivial and cant be copyrighted.

im not trying to complicate this, by the way. this is how these things really work, whether i mention them or not. i didnt make them this way, i have (through choosing cc0) made them as trivial as they can possibly be made.

https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

No Copyright

The person who associated a work with this deed has dedicated the work to the public domain by waiving all of his or her rights to the work worldwide under copyright law, including all related and neighboring rights, to the extent allowed by law.

thats not all it says, by the way.

before 1976, this wasnt necessary. so there are lots of coders who remember how this stuff worked before 1976, when the only way stuff got copyrighted was to register it.

now copyright is automatic, so if you want to make your work "no rights reserved" you have to be explicit about it.

in most places on earth this can be done with a simple text snippet. in finland where linus torvalds is from, an author would have to bring himself physical harm to get his work into the public domain-- which might not ever work in the united states, because of retroactive copyright term extensions!

cc0 is the best known way to resolve this, and possibly the only known way for a living author to put their work in the public domain everywhere in the world at once.

im not against mit/x11 and gpl licenses. i use gpl when i am required to, and i use mit/x11 license for some things, though rarely.

cc0 is closer to a stronger version of "wtfpl" and could be called "wtfpl, seriously though" if it wasnt called cc0.

rockedge · #743 Post by **rockedge** » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:43

I inserted Tor Browser manually...download 32 bit Linux
extracted with tar -xz to /opt I modified the start_tor_browser.desktop to reflect the position of the Tor folder.
I modified the start_tor_browser script to stop checking if Tor is running under root (just in case I feel like running as root)
I would like to make a easy install tor.tcz ....

Note for Tor_Browser to connect to the network the system clock has to be correct.

I installed ntpclient.tcz using App and ran the command:

Code: Select all

sudo ntpclient -s -c 1 -h us.pool.ntp.org

this syncs the time to UTC with the nearest USA NTP server. Now adjust the time zone to your area through the Control Panel

nosystemdthanks · #744 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 00:41

rockedge wrote:I inserted Tor Browser manually...download 32 bit Linux

was that a link? dont worry i can find the link, but if i did id just ask "is this the same one you used?" and you probably have it in your history.

extracted with tar -xz to /opt I modified the start_tor_browser.desktop to reflect the position of the Tor folder.

cool, thats exactly how i would do it.

I modified the start_tor_browser script to stop checking if Tor is running under root (just in case I feel like running as root)

i wont do that, and i will explain why.

I would like to make a easy install tor.tcz ....

i get what youre saying and i get the modularity argument-- but i still have to ask, is tor not already included with tor browser?

I installed ntpclient.tcz using App and ran the command:
Code: Select all
sudo ntpclient -s -c 1 -h us.pool.ntp.org
this syncs the time to UTC with the nearest USA NTP server.

good idea. i met a tinfoil types once who thinks ntp is bad, but its what i would use too until the tor people (or more of the security community) recommend not using it.

why i wont personally modify the tor script to run as root:

tor is a security feature-- technically its better to think of it as a privacy feature, but for people who use it to avoid the chinese government for example, it is a security feature.

if the tor people think its wise to prevent the script running as root, so do i.

but if you would like to add that to your rockedge profile, i will gladly do so. profile-wise, thats as far as im willing to assist compromising the tor script.

i also dont think its a very dangerous compromise. for a few people (journalists and actvists in china) the stakes are high, so being careful about this is a good idea.

im not sure id recommend corepup to those people yet anyway. for the average tor user, running as root is probably (but again, are we sure?) ok.

i sympathise with, but dont entirely agree with the "everything as root" philosophy.

in fact, one of the features i want to add to mcorepup is the root desktop-- a feature of fig os that (while the gui runs things as user or "tc" by default) makes all desktop icons run as root like puppy.

so version 2.8 of fig os was like this:

[taskbar and menu runs things as user, so do keyboard shortcuts]

[icon opens term as root]

[icon opens leafpad as root]

[icon opens wicd-gtk as root]

[icon runs script as root to open browser as user]

i call this feature "root desktop," and as far as i know, no distribution other than fig os has ever had this feature.

puppy runs desktop as root, but for fig os it is just the icons on the desktop area, not the taskbar or icewm. "puppy uses jwm+rox" "i know, fig os uses icewm+the qt version of pcmanfm"

most users want puppy to run as root, so if i we figure out how make mcorepup do that we can make run-as-root a default profile.

so someone like me who didnt want that could remove "run-as-root" from profiles, and optionally add "root-desktop" if they like that as a compromise.

i really like using root desktop-- its most of the convenience of run-as-root but within the more traditional multiuser framework of gnu/linux.

new fig os user:

"how do i open the term?"

"click on the icon that says console."

"how do i become root?"

"the console is already root."

"what about gui stuff?"

"the desktop icons are already root too."

"so the leafpad icon?"

"runs leafpad as root, yes."

and yes, this works without sudo or gksudo. it gets its authentication handed directly from rc.local.

ive only made it work from debian-based distros, but it should be possible from corepup.

rockedge · #745 Post by **rockedge** » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 01:09

this is the link to what I used :
https://www.torproject.org/dist/torbrow ... -US.tar.xz

I am not running Tor as root. I am running Tor Browser as tc.....
I modified it because I tested it out in Puppy Linux. But on corepup as tc no need to.

Tor fails to connect to the network as the certificates will not be correct. this is caused by the the system clock and the timestamps it is creating. Probably the year was off...this is an old old machine not run for a while.
so I used the client to set the system clock for correct time and date....after that Tor will connect to the Tor onion skin.

I am just looking for a reason to construct a tcz..to learn the ins and outs
I know there is a Tor.tcz already but I am looking for a side gig to burn off the frustration of not getting PHP to run with Apache 2.4

I do a round about way...I open rox-filer as "superuser" (root) then launch from a terminal I start through rox or I modify the .desktop file to add sudo.
or I just sudo su and launch stuff..all depends on wat I am doing.
I like also to have sometimes 2 options to launch a program 1 icon starts as root the other tc.
I mess around deep enough in the system that unless I am root I can not do the operation ...sometimes.

Loading this manually helps me better understand, so when it comes time to achieve my goal of a zoneminder CCTV system based on corepup in the least amount of RAM possible.

I have Apache 2.4 running smoothly but I can not seem to get the PHP to parse. Still wading through where what is....similar but different than the ZM setups with LAMP stacks on Puppy or Debian / Ubuntu

rockedge · #746 Post by **rockedge** » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 01:24

and I have no fear of running as root....but if I am being sly and clever...once in a while I do need to run not as root.....security against detection isn't the thing for me, but needing the rest of the machine hard to access when running different kind of servers live and accessible via the Internet is more of my concern... I rarely use Tor. "They" already know who I am all the way down to the DNA.

I think the main argument against running as root only applies to machines on networks...mostly external networks. Well made dangerous software doesn't depend on one running as root to work.

I think it's a drag to always forget to sudo this and sudo that

nosystemdthanks · #747 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 01:28

make no mistake, i support what youre doing and the way youre doing it. the puppy community (as well as you and i) dont always "choose convention".

and i think if you dont self-identify as "expert" (wanderer doesnt, i dont, you might not either) then sometimes unconventional means are easier to do or to understand (and thats a bonus.)

im teaching someone how to write their own programming languages, and theyre redoing my work with more conventional means of parsing. i taught them how to do this, theyre actually becoming more conventional and more expert now. but i chose something less conventional.

my favourite thing about the puppy community, one of its strongest strengths, is that not everything follows convention here.

conventions are just "very good ideas in a specific context," theyre not always the laws of physics and theyre fun to break whenever its not a totally stupid idea (and sometimes even when it is.)

nosystemdthanks · #748 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Sat 28 Jul 2018, 12:27

and xencore is no longer secret:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113981

corepuppified xenial-- basically corepup 7 plus most of puppy xenial. replaces palemoon with gnu icecat. gnu icecat is going to need some tidying to work properly-- disabling extensions makes it work like an actual browser, but some just need to be removed.

the sfs from puppy does get turned into a tcz file. the idea is to turn it into more than one tcz. the best way to do that will probably be to catalog whats in common with both tc and xenial.

it boots, you can install it and get the gui running, but this is still a proof of concept.

wanderer · #749 Post by **wanderer** » Sat 28 Jul 2018, 18:29

hi nosystemdthanks (and rockedge)

xencore is truly awesome

the idea behind corepup

thanks for doing all the work

wanderer

wanderer · #750 Post by **wanderer** » Sun 29 Jul 2018, 04:49

hi all

i note with great pleasure
that nosystemdthanks continues to forge ahead
with his mcorepup scripts
very sophisticated and powerful
essentially a woof-ce for corepup related projects

i continue to work on my manual build system for corepup

as soon as time allows i will make tc9 into corepups
as well as other tasks

a lot of fun

keep the faith

wanderer

nosystemdthanks · #751 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Sun 29 Jul 2018, 05:25

wanderer wrote: very sophisticated and powerful

arguably powerful, i wouldnt say "sophisticated" but thanks for the compliment.

as soon as time allows i will make tc9 into corepups

i will try copying mcorepup 0.5 to 0.6 and throwing the tc9 url in there, and tell you what happens.

obviously i will not change its core to the corepup 6 core, but if you create a core for tc9 then that can be added too.

if it works, it will be a fun corepup 9 "alpha" version.

by the way, the entire tc 6 repo is 2.6 gb to download. it is 6.8 gb if you open each tcz.

keep up the good work.

nosystemdthanks · #752 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Mon 30 Jul 2018, 05:16

here is mcorepup 0.6, it is tc-9 based.

has wanderers corepup.tcz but not his custom core.gz (if its tc-9 based he needs to make a core.gz for that version, this does everything else)

i didnt have to change much to make it tc-9 based. i had to change the url of coreplus to the newer one. i had to change the places that asked for 6.x to 9.x so they would download the right packages. until theres a custom core.gz i had to change core.gz to tinycore.gz

the background is there, the gui works-- though i havent tried booting without the usual grub setup yet.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... &id=118090

wanderer · #753 Post by **wanderer** » Mon 30 Jul 2018, 20:16

hi nosystemdthanks

thanks a lot for this latest mcorepup

when time allows
I am going to change my build system
so that it is compatible with mcorepup

I will continue to use and develop my manual build system
in parallel with mcorepup
since I can use it to come up with new combinations

but over time I see mcorepup
being the primary build system for corepup
and I will begin to use it more and more

thank you for all your work
and great ideas

wanderer

rockedge · #754 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 31 Jul 2018, 01:05

Corepup-7 (iso = 65 megs)
created from mcorepup06.fig on Puppy Linux Bionic 18.05+8

ran it using the stock settings

nosystemdthanks · #755 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Tue 31 Jul 2018, 01:18

as an alternative to manual changes and automatic builders, i would like more people to create "recipes" for puppy and for distros in general.

for example, i know that xenial pup ce exists. i dont know what its features are, but i have tools that can take it apart and examine it and spit out a report.

those tools to examine contents eventually turned into tools to manipulate the contents, which you know as mcorepup and mxencore.

recipes are a different idea-- they simply describe the existing distro in terms of what features it has, by naming as many parts of it as possible. so for example, a recipe for corepup 6 might look like:

based on tinycore/coreplus 6.x
jwm default, wbar
icewm fluxbox optional
xvesa
dillo browser
tc/tce/tcz package management

it could be longer and more detailed, but you learn a lot from the recipe.

a xenial pup ce recipe would be longer than that:

based on ubuntu xenial
jwm default, rox
xorg
pale moon browser
petget/pet package management

the tools i created to examine the contents of puppy isos were ultimately going to produce output like this in a large html table-- and to some extent, they can.

the advantage of this simpler way is twofold:

1. people could create a large thread of such recipes, to help document existing versions of puppy (probably no interest, but it would be cool.)

2. people could use recipes to talk about features they want and like and prefer, which would assist people trying to make pups or dogs or distros that are different

there are people who cant (at least, not yet) create a puppy version that does what they want. there are many tools to help them, so most people probably could.

one capability of mcorepup that isnt being used yet, is the ability to create minor modifications.

for example, you give it puppy xenial and a slightly different puppy xenial comes out-- with a few different packages.

yes, there are puppy remaster tools that let you do that. they might even be better, although if youre making minor changes than an automatic remaster script would perhaps be more practical to redistribute than a slightly modified bootable iso.

for corepup fans, some recipes could translate very easily to mcorepup profiles. so if no one else uses this recipe idea, we can if it sounds good to anybody.

"how do i write a recipe?"

just look at a description of any distro or pup, and remove everything but the ingredients and the simplest details.

really, thats all it is. i would clarify further if the need presented itself.

recipe for mcorepup 0.6:

automatically remastered
based on tc9 with corepup changes
includes corepup.tcz but not core.gz (not yet, needs tc9-compatible core.gz)
otherwise, same recipe as corepup 6

thats really all it is.

rockedge · #756 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 31 Jul 2018, 18:28

posting at the moment from Corepup-7 using palemoon 27.9.3 and it is responsive and quick.
I have been trying out the SCM packages and installed XAMPP 1.8.1 via the App SCM but I can not get the web server or mysql to start. Always a file not found error when using the control script. both the python control panel and the Bash script fail.

the persistence feature is not fully functioning or it just lacks flexibility. I am going to be looking at what is not doing that it could.

some examples of recipes and configurations that are possible to set in the mcorepup06.fig would be helpful to get a good start using it.
. I will look over the documentation a little closer to find some cool features and possibilities.

a clear cut instruction how to use the fig46.py and use FIG in general to create a mcorepup06.fig.py to finally get to the finished ISO.

the entire process is quick on my test machines.

rockedge · #757 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 31 Jul 2018, 22:45

just to mention.... I set up a corepup construct directory on my prevoiusly built Corepup-7 system and with python 2.7 installed as tcz package was able to successfully make a new Corepup-7.iso at 65 megs using fig46.py and mcorepup06.fig

installed frugally to a HDD using Grub4Dos

nosystemdthanks · #758 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 00:14

rockedge wrote:a clear cut instruction how to use the fig46.py and use FIG in general to create a mcorepup06.fig.py to finally get to the finished ISO.

the entire process is quick on my test machines.

i dont know if this is a question, mcorepup 0.6 seems to be working for you and the instructions posted for using the latest version do not differ from the ones posted earlier on, or the ones youve used before.

hopefully (i want to guarantee, but instead i will say almost definitely) if i changed that i would mention it. when i count out the things you couldnt be asking, i dont know whats left that you could be.

certainly im happy to explain any aspect of fig that you like-- its a programming language i designed specifically around being easier to explain, ask me anything. ask me 20 questions or 100, i will do my very best. but sincere apologies, its not always obvious to me just what the question is. i wrote a book about fig, which i tweaked just for mcorepup users. i assume your question is more specific than what it answers (most questions are.)

when someone fails to convey a request in a way i understand, probably the best shortcut is an example of what would help, stated as "just for example" etc.

note that im still learning new aspects of tinycore. one thing i wonder about is how to reliably get packages to load on boot. the key word is reliably.

i think copy2fs is going to be more what i want as well as what puppy users want. onload.lst is more tc-like, i think-- copy2fs is more puppy like, i think.

whether wanderer agrees (he might at some point, i dont know if he has a position on this) id recommend we all move towards copy2fs as the primary convention--

with the obvious point that people should feel free to load packages in any way that suits them, though we should at least (as maintainers or pseudomaintainers) be able to offer a reliable way to load them.

and i think until that is more predictable, we are going to be at the mercy of a system that is a little mysterious at times. thats not really want you want from a boot process. i think populating the copy2fs is the best way to move towards reliability-- but its something i plan to check out.

i know that its not what wanderer wants from corepup, nor really what i want either, but the most reliable way to put stuff in corepup is actually to put it all in a single package. does that defeat the whole purpose of it? yes, so im not really suggesting that.

"learning how to use tc properly" is probably the better solution for us. whether thats actually going to happen as we deliberately try to change it to suit our whims is another matter.

tc isnt a ufo or even a rocketship, but its different than most distros-- some things that are trivial (through common experience) are simply done in a different way with tc.

i recently moved from debian to void linux, and in that move i went from everything in sfs to everything in ext3 in sfs, but thats still just an extra mount. tc is weirder than that, if only a little. its different enough to mention.

rockedge · #759 Post by **rockedge** » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 03:48

the documentation and some code examples to set up mcorepup and to be able to boot the OS because there is some interest out there in Corepup. there is someone looking for an OS in the bare minimum that will allow Chromium to run. The OS needs only what it takes to run the browser and connect to the network.

here is the thread : http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 49#1000749

I mention it so that there is one place to send somebody to for the info needed to get corepup going.

I am already able on various systems to build and install corepup and now mxencore.....

yes tc and corepup do some mysterious things for sure

nosystemdthanks · #760 Post by **nosystemdthanks** » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 06:21

do you really think that a thread on this forum is the best place for documentation? if you do, i am willing to play along.

wanderers philosophy of everything in a single thread is something i honour as much as i possibly can, because im sympathetic to his preferences and goals. but for documenting what youre talking about, i doubt this thread is the place.

loosely translated: lets find a place for such documentation. be it a webpage, notabug repo, a dedicated thread on the corepup subforum, or even its own thread here. lets not ask people from outside the puppy community to start reading in the middle of a 50-page thread on a forum theyre not familiar with and just "figure it out."

id like your help with this, because (funny as it sounds) you have more experience running mcorepup than i do. sure, i run it. i have a hard drive currently dedicated to running the output of mcorepup.

ive also got corepup running qemu, so i can boot isos directly to find out if they go to gui without my custom /tce folder and grub setup. as to which one of us is more qualified to write a "getting started" guide, its actually you. thus im not asking you to do it, only to assist me a little bit. it will be a far more useful guide to your friend/associate if you do.

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