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shinobar
PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 08:34    Post subject: snapmergepuppy

Sorry i have not yet reviewed rerwin's code but deleting /dev/snd is good i think.
I proposed to Barry to remove whole /dev in the savefile, but Barry sais we need to keep symlinks.
Yes, we need to keep only symlinks user made but all the rest under /dev can be, should be, removed from the savefile.

EDIT:
Ah, recent woof is removing /dev/snd, It's OK as for sound.
What i want to say is removing whole /dev except symlinks is better. Because i sometimes got trouble with usb printers.
Sage
PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 08:22    Post subject:

Congratulations! I have been doing HW diagnosis by phone and email for a long time and was 99% sure of your situation.
SW is one thing, but you will always run into problems unless you fix the HW once and for all.
Chances are that the add-in sound card is superior, that's why it was, errr, added.
Look up the specs of on-board and card chips to confirm which is best.
If you just want muzak in the background of indeterminate quality, rip out the add-in card and make do with the on-board sound.
If you need quality for feeding hi-fi, video phone, serious sound projects, it's time to take scalpel in hand and disable that on-board chip in the ways I described above.
There is absolutely no way you can guarantee no problems with the SW until you fix the HW. It may work initially with pd's clever SW manipulation, but one upgrade will break it again every time. Do it now, do it right.
playdayz
PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 07:20    Post subject:

Sylvander, Thank you for the thorough testing. Here is the latest snapmergepuppy with the change that zekebaby recommended. You could try it on a fresh install of lupu-528.003.iso. No need for any other of the fixes. Let's see if this works.

Quote:
Why no sound problem with other Puppies, only Lupu-528 [not with Lupu-526]?

That is the big question of course. Have you confirmed that it does it in lupu-528.iso without any updates installed? But it could be that some other update was made that caused the snapmergepuppy problem to become serious. That may be grasping at straws though. Anyway, if the snapmerge business doesn't help I am going to give up.
Sylvander
PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 06:29    Post subject:

OK...
(A)
1. Phoned ErnieK who gave me this desktop PC...
And took a look inside [the side is permanently OFF], whilst on the phone.
Can't see very well; the PC is in the corner, poor access, could disconnect the cables and take it out to gain better access if needed/suggested.

2. There is an added PC sound card in place, but almost UNUSED.
i.e. There is a sound cable connected from the DVD-RW to the sound-card.
That's the only thing making use of it right now.

3. With on-board sound...
I have a splitter connected to the top/green/line-out 3.2mm jack socket, going to: 1=amplified speakers, and 2=an unamplified headset->[volume is OK, even using line signal].
And the headset mic jack going to the bottom/pink/mic socket.

(B)
What's the best thing to do with these?
1. Use only the better quality sound card, and disable the on-board sound in the BIOS Setup?
The manual shows "Chip Configuration->Onboard PCI Audio" [default=enabled, can be disabled]
I'd prefer to use the sound card methinks.
OR...
2. Remove the sound card, and use the on-board sound?
The manual shows "CD1" on mobo->[3 pins=left-audio,grnd,right-audio] for CD-drive audio->[I see this is not connected right now].
OR...
3. Have BOTH on-board AND the sound card enabled, and use both?
Is that possible?
OR...
4. Have the Puppy choose which or BOTH to use, and software-disable whatever is un-needed?

5. Why no sound problem with other Puppies, only Lupu-528 [not with Lupu-526]?
Sage
PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 05:36    Post subject:

Quote:
I saw two sound cards

For almost a decade, possibly even longer, boards have been issued with on-board sound. Folks intending to use posh add-in sound cards, including TV cards, 99-channel theatre sound, etc. should be aware of this. Writing out the on-board chip in BIOS is unreliable. It is necessary to look up the data sheet for the sound chip, identify the power-in, audio-in and audio-out leads and sever them with a scalpel. Then write them out in BIOS. These problems require radical action at the HW end. If you want to sell your board on eBay in ten years time, the on-board sound can be re-enabled with a judicious dab of solder on the cut pins. End of story.
Sylvander
PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 04:52    Post subject:

@rerwin

1. I printed out your instructions for a fix from many days back, but it looks rather difficult at 1st glance, and other urgent real-life tasks got in the way, so I've been waiting for the right moment to attempt it.
Is it still appropriate to try this?

2. "just deleting the /dev/snd folder and reboot. That also seemed to work for me. Don't do it from ROX though; add it to the latest shutdown script you can find."
(a) I've previously attempted to delete /dev using Xfe, and that failed to delete.
(b) How to add it [delete of /dev/snd] to the latest shutdown script? Instructions needed.

3. "IIRC, I did the mod in snapmergepuppy in Wary (don't know if it exists in Lupu)"
(a) What does this mean?
(b) What is IIRC?
(c) What is snapmergepuppy?

4. "In analyzing Sylvander's diag files, I saw two sound cards with the same driver and hardware IDs, although their subsystem IDs were different."
I think this donated/gifted hardware has 4-channel sound.
i.e. Surround-sound [via 2-off stereo channels perhaps].

5. "If Sylvander were to look at the setup while sound and retrovol are working, we could test that theory. Instead of getting a diag file, simply capture the output of the command:
cat /proc/asound/*
during a normal run would either confirm or rule out that card duplication as a cause.
"
(a) Would you like me to restore a pupsave backup [to get back to a working system], then run that command?
(b) What then?

6. "In addition, it would be interesting to have those experiencing the problem run that command both while sound/retrovol is working and when it fails."
(a) Once I know HOW [in detail], I could do it also during a fail-state.
zekebaby
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 21:37    Post subject:

rerwin wrote:
zekebaby wrote:
. . . then try just deleting the /dev/snd folder and reboot. That also seemed to work for me. Don't do it from ROX though; add it to the latest shutdown script you can find. IIRC, I did the mod in snapmergepuppy in Wary (don't know if it exists in Lupu)
I have made the snapmergepuppy mod in my "patch-2" posted a few pages back:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=583550#583550

Do you have a suggestion on how to change rc.shutdown to deal with /dev/snd? I could add it to my next patch. BTW, patch-2 has more of the wary updates to rc.shutsown, but I don't see anything about /dev/snd.
Richard

Hi Richard,

Look for comment #110224 in snapmergepuppy in the latest Wary to see the fix. I don't know if it works in rc.shutdown, which may run too early. The removal of /dev/snd needs to happen as late as possible.
rerwin
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 21:30    Post subject:

In all the discussion about random loss of sound, no one has addressed what I suspect could be a factor. In analyzing Sylvander's diag files, I saw two sound cards with the same driver and hardware IDs, although their subsystem IDs were different. I suspect that the devices are not always discovered in the same sequence, so that either could end up as device 0, the default sound card.

Both of Sylvander's diags showed the older of the two cards as device 0, at the time that retrovol crashed. My guess is that there is something wrong with the older (built-in?) card that upsets retrovol (the speaker icon program). If Sylvander were to look at the setup while sound and retrovol are working, we could test that theory. Instead of getting a diag file, simply capture the output of the command:
cat /proc/asound/*
during a normal run would either confirm or rule out that card duplication as a cause.

In addition, it would be interesting to have those experiencing the problem run that command both while sound/retrovol is working and when it fails.

The command shows more than we need. The relevant files there are "cards" and "modules".
Richard
rerwin
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 21:11    Post subject:

zekebaby wrote:
. . . then try just deleting the /dev/snd folder and reboot. That also seemed to work for me. Don't do it from ROX though; add it to the latest shutdown script you can find. IIRC, I did the mod in snapmergepuppy in Wary (don't know if it exists in Lupu)
I have made the snapmergepuppy mod in my "patch-2" posted a few pages back:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=583550#583550

Do you have a suggestion on how to change rc.shutdown to deal with /dev/snd? I could add it to my next patch. BTW, patch-2 has more of the wary updates to rc.shutsown, but I don't see anything about /dev/snd.
Richard
zekebaby
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 20:47    Post subject:

playdayz wrote:
Quote:
Try removing the /dev folder before shutting down and see if the volume icons come back at the next boot

zekebaby, deleting /dev caused big problems on reboot. The monitor was not auto detected and then X would not start????

. . . then try just deleting the /dev/snd folder and reboot. That also seemed to work for me. Don't do it from ROX though; add it to the latest shutdown script you can find. IIRC, I did the mod in snapmergepuppy in Wary (don't know if it exists in Lupu)
Sylvander
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 17:54    Post subject:

A. STEP
31. Restored PupsaveHotBackup=5

B. Booted into Lupu-528.003, and all looked good: loudspeaker icon was there, and all the proper [previously set] Retrovol configurations were also there. Very Happy

C. I wonder how many reboots it will take before the loudspeaker icon is gone?
Time will tell.

D. I notice that at the previous post by me...
When I tried to edit my post...
Firefox said something like: "Sorry, but you can only edit your own post"...
And when I tried to return to the thread, I was taken to page-1! Confused

E. Will it happen again, here and now?
No, all is well.
There's nowt so strange as PC's! Confused Rolling Eyes
Sylvander
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 17:28    Post subject:

A. STEP:
26. Restored PupsaveHotBackup=4 of 11.11.30-14.10
27. Installed shutdown_patch.pet.
28. Repeat 20,21.
29. Repeat 17,18,23, then 2S&R.
30. Made PupsaveHotBackup=5 of 11.12.01-21.07, then 2S&R.

B. Loudspeaker icon gone at 2nd reboot! Sad
Sylvander
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 16:06    Post subject:

On the 7th reboot the loudspeaker icon disappeared! Sad
Sylvander
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 13:19    Post subject:

A. I haven't tried your patch just yet, because...

B. When I was setting up Lupu-528.003...
I wrote down all the significant steps I was taking, one line to a step...
Noting...
Package installs.
PupsaveHotBackups made=4 and restored=1.
Configuration changes.
Changes to code in some files to produce changed/improved functions. [I do this routinely without problems]

C. Step 19 in my list was to restore my 4th [and last] backup, that was made just prior to the disappearance of the loudspeaker icon.
This has restored Lupu-528.003 to its fully-functioning state [with loudspeaker icon].

D. So far I've made some changes as listed below, then after each change, clicked the "Save" icon, and rebooted.
Five reboots so far, and all's well.

E. Here are the steps from the restore onward:
STEP
19. Restored PupsaveHotBackup=4 of lupusave file. [Used Wary-5.2.2->Xfe to do this]
20. Uninstalled "Parcellite-1.0.9-i486". [Wasn't working normally]
21. Installed "Parcellite-0.9.3-lucid". [This works normally] Then "Save" & reboot [S&R].
22. Restored steps 17 & 18 [see below] having saved the necessary files to a Flash Drive. Then S&R.
23. Config "Retrovol" settings, then S&R.
24. Retrovol settings NOT-SAVED, so re-did these, then 2S&R->[save during session and at shut-down] with Retrovol window left open.
25. Retrovol settings DID save this time. [WHY this time, but not last? Is "Save" icon not working?]

Earlier STEPS:
17. See this post on how to prevent the spurious warning as a pupsave installation of Puppy boots, that the previous shut-down was improper.
18. And this post on a workaround for the faulty "Open with..." facility in Xfe being run in Puppy_Linux.
playdayz
PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 12:03    Post subject:

Quote:
Fresh manual frugal install of 528.003 on a different old Athlon XP box.Sound, internet and display all working and correct on initial boot.Rebooted 8 or 10 times....no sound problems.

Thank you James C. Yes I think 5.2.8 runs nicely in almost all cases--no problem at all with frugal installs and no problem with some usb installs. I have a usb install that I am booting over and over with no problem. That is why this problem with sound is so frustrating. Something that only happens after multiple reboots to some usb installs, that's bizarre. You were around from the beginning and this is the worst bug we have had. We were extraordinarily lucky--and if there had to be a nasty bug it is better to have it in the last version when the replacement is online Wink

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Try removing the /dev folder before shutting down and see if the volume icons come back at the next boot


zekebaby, deleting /dev caused big problems on reboot. The monitor was not auto detected and then X would not start????

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
elcurita, Sylvander, and others with usb sound issue: You might try this shutdown_patch pet. I uses the rc.shutdown from 5.2.8 original, just in case. Another shot in the dark.
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