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prehistoric
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 21:29    Post subject:

Bigpup, I missed seeing your previous post until after I had written mine above. When I did see your post I was late for dinner. Sorry, if I confused you. I felt like I had tried every version of Chromium/Chrome/Iron and seen them all fail, but I had not tried the Google_Chrome-18-Lucid linked above.

Your observation about SSE2 seems like the right explanation. I went back to the machine with the Intel D201GLY board and checked. It runs Chromium 18. The processor soldered to that board is a Celeron 215. Hardware info tells me it does have SSE2. In fact it also has the extensions to SSE called either SSE3 or PNI (Prescott New Instructions).

At the time AMD produced the Athlon XP Intel was going through another episode when it tried to stamp out all competition. This meant it would not license the new instructions. This was the same period when Intel made disastrous mistakes of its own. One aspect resulted in the early Pentium 4s. (How many people out there are running socket 423 machines with RDRAM?) Another error concerned the IA-64, Itanium, with patented instructions. (Not just the implementation, but the instructions themselves.) The marketplace soundly rejected all three things. A smaller company would have collapsed.

I am still shocked to discover such a common application program depends on such obscure details of the instruction set when the OS does not. I hope the working version we have means that in the future Google software will check before attempting to use vendor specific instructions.
James C
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 17:36    Post subject:

From my experiences with the Chrome/Chromium/Iron pets on an Athlon XP box, the Chrome 18 pet linked to above is the only one that has worked.All other Chrome/Chromium/Iron pets have failed to operate....generally with the "illegal instruction" message.
Just tried a couple of Chromium pets last night.....no go.Been discussed through both Lucid and Slacko development but the underlying reason is still undetermined.
bigpup
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 17:24    Post subject:

prehistoric,

Quote:
The machine giving me trouble has an ASUS A7S8X-MX motherboard with an Athlon-XP 2500+, and 2GB of RAM.
I can confirm that the Google_Chrome-18-Lucid.pet does work. I have it running on the other desktop of this machine. So far, it does not seem sluggish.

I am confused.
I thought your problem was Chrome would not run on this computer.
From earilier post you wrote:
Quote:
chrome - On this one machine I can't seem to run any derivative of chromium, Google-chrome or Iron. In the case of the oldest version this is explained by an attempt to "exec chrome-linux" which does not exist.
prehistoric
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 17:05    Post subject:

I can confirm that the Google_Chrome-18-Lucid.pet does work. I have it running on the other desktop of this machine. So far, it does not seem sluggish.

I have an uncertain memory of having installed Chrome or Chromium on a recent build with 5.28.005 using a Celeron on an Intel board, D201GLY. If the problem related to the change from 32-bit to 64-bit I wouldn't expect this to work. At this point I'm leaning toward the multiprocessing explanation.

Both socket 370 and socket A boards with multiple processors were available, but everyone I knew who messed with them later twitched when people mentioned multiprocessing. Both companies got their multiprocessor act together at a later date, when big orders for massive multiprocessors depended on it, and a consumer market for multi-core machines began to develop.

I'm no authority, and I'll be happy to hear from someone who really knows what's behind this.
bigpup
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 16:30    Post subject:

prehistoric wrote:
The machine giving me trouble has an ASUS A7S8X-MX motherboard with an Athlon-XP 2500+

From the listed system requirements for Chrome, Athlon-XP does not meet requirement for processor.
http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=95411
However, that does not usually keep a browser from working. Just causes sluggish operation.
From earlier in Lucid Puppy post. Chrome worked if using earlier version.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=593672#593672
Also read some bug reports on Chromium browser that stated it needs SSE2 support to work, which Athlon-XP does not have.
Not sure if Googles Chrome browser needs this also. Not sure what Google did to Chromium to make Chrome.
playdayz
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 16:18    Post subject:

LupuPlus 5.2.8.005 & LupuPlus Libre 5.2.8.005

This is a complement to Lucid 5.2.8, not a replacement. It will exist alongside Lucid 5.2.8. It is called Lucid Plus because 1) it has 41 extra drivers (thanks to tempestuous); 2) it has extra provisions for HP printers and scanners (thanks to lluamco); 3) it has the 2 series of Pmusic plus the necessary updated multimedia components (ffmpeg). Thanks mainly to rerwin for Lucid Plus because he had the ideas for 1) and 2) and provided numerous tweaks to the infrastructure.

LupuPlus Libre has Libre Office 3.5.2 built-in and integrated with the desktop--it also includes Java which Libre Office likes to have. Because Libre Office is built-in it copies into ram with the rest of the Puppy OS and consequently runs with alacrity.

Should you use it? 1) If you have had any driver problems with Lucid 5.2.8.005; 2) if you have an HP printer or scanner and have had trouble configuring it; 3) if you want Lucid with the new ffmpeg and Pmusic 2.x. Most people will tell no difference except for the additions. For some Lucid Plus will work better than Lucid 5.2.8.005, but for others Lucid Plus might not work as well. Use LupuPlus Libre if you would like to have Libre Office built-in along with Java.

LupuPlus 5.2.8.005 is in basically the same state of update as Lucid 5.2.8.005 with further updates in bold. ffconvert 1.2.1 - shinobar; sfs-load 1.3 - shinobar; PupControl 2.0 - radky; Sylpheed 3.1.3 - playdayz; mtpaint 3.44.3 - don570; PupApps 1.8 - radky; PupSnap 1.6.3 - radky; pprocess 2.2.4 - zigbert; Pburn 3.5.2 - zigbert; firewallstate 2.1 - tasmod; grub4dos 1.7.2 - shinobar; isomaster 1.3.9 - BarryK; pbackup 3.1.9 - zigbert; pfilesearch 1.28 - zigbert; pfind 4.25 - zigbert; PupClockset 1.9 - radky; PupSysinfo 2.1.4 - radky; Bacon Recorder 2.7 - don570; dillo 3.0.2 - playdayz; geany 0.21 - playdayz; Pmusic 2.5.3 - zigbert; HomeBank 4.4 - playdayz; Psip32 - Lobster; Inkscapelite - playdayz

New Programs -> PupMenu 2.0 - radky; getflash 0.9 - shinobar; hpliplite - lluamco
Improved -> Help working in Abiword, Homebank, and web links in many programs Help -> About
Fixed -> guvcview 1.4.1-1 (the previous version would often crash if changing video size and capturing)

LupuPlus 5.2.8.005-1 -> http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/lupuplus-528.005-1.iso
c105252ebc5f926eb3f5f749215c9b2b

[Outdated old version of Libre Office] LupuPlusLibre 5.2.8.005-2 -> http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/lupupluslibre-528.005-2.iso
4f581325d497077be811f88800aeff3a

The extra drivers:

acx-mac80211-20110602-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=443985#443985
ath5k-patched-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=444659#444659
tg3-3.110-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=447938#447938
broadcom_sta-5.6.48.36-i486.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=421596#421596 referenced from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=448464#448464 needs preference: "ssb:b43"
Puppy5.1-WPA-hotfix.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=448997#448997 #lost since 5.1.1
rfkill-upgrade-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=452093#452093
xhci-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=453853#453853 already in lupu002-patch-6
r8192se_pci-k2.6.33.2.pet and 3 others from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=462469#462469 needs
preference: "r8192_pci:r8192se_pci"
sn9c102-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=469698#469698 and...
libv4l-0.6.1.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=469701#469701
rt5370sta-v2.5.0.1-k2.6.33.2.pet and 2 others from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=481085#481085
rt3090sta-v2.4.0.4-k2.6.33.2.pet and 2 others from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=494618#494618
orinoco_usb-git20101211-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=495672#495672
iwlagn-firmware-update-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=497421#497421
hid-logitech-k2.6.33.2.pet and perhaps joystick-utils.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=500184#500184
w35und-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=500722#500722
rt3070sta-v2.3.0.1-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=513360#513360 should be made available as an alternative to the latest version, but not included in the ISO.
ar5523-svn-r29060-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=513414#513414
snd-emu10k1-firmware.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=515568#515568
dvb-usb-rtl2832u_k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=522199#522199
hostap-upgrade-k2.6.33.2.pet and prism-NV-firmware-1.8.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=525677#525677
qcaux-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=526920#526920
jmb38x_xd-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=564015#564015
dialup_modem_drivers-agere-lucent-k2.6.33.2-20110913.pet and 2 others from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=564112#564112
dialup_modem_drivers-intel-537-2010_07_19-k2.6.33.2.pet and 3 others from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=564113#564113 Could be left as optional packages.
cdc-acm-update-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=578318#578318
dvb-usb-af903x-k2.6.33.2.pet and 1 other from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=584751#584751
meye-k2.6.33.2.pet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=592101#592101 This might require a "rules" file to get the driver loaded.
prehistoric
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 16:14    Post subject:

James C wrote:
Believe that's the Arora browser pet I built long,long ago.Actually a pretty nice little browser. Smile
Not knocking the browser, but -- just for grins -- take a look at the information page PPM offers.

The latest suggestion is that these processors were essentially the same as the Athlon MP. Could the browser code be trying to find out if this is capable of multiprocessing????

This is a "Barton" (10 th generation AMD) processor. For hard-core hardware types I offer the exact processor code: AXDA2500DKV4D
James C
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 16:03    Post subject:
Subject description: alternate browser problems

prehistoric wrote:

chrome - On this one machine I can't seem to run any derivative of chromium, Google-chrome or Iron. In the case of the oldest version this is explained by an attempt to "exec chrome-linux" which does not exist.

Later versions seem to fail immediately, reporting "Illegal instruction" when run from a console.


Since my main Linux box is an Athlon XP 2400+ I can confirm. It appears that the problem exists mainly for Athlon XP and older cpu's and Intel P3's and older.Haven't noticed a problem on newer AMD or Intel P4's and newer.
Luckily, the google Chrome pet ftp://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pet-packages-lucid/Google_Chrome-18-Lucid.pet posted a few pages back does work on Athlon Xp cpu's.
Not Chromium but the same family.HTH.
James C
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 15:51    Post subject:

Believe that's the Arora browser pet I built long,long ago.Actually a pretty nice little browser. Smile
pemasu
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 15:36    Post subject:

I think Arora means Arora like Qt based browser Arora. The big size of the pet comes from in build Qt libs.

http://code.google.com/p/arora/
prehistoric
PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2012, 15:25    Post subject:
Subject description: alternate browser problems

I've had good luck installing 5.28.005 on a number of machines. However, a request for Chromium as browser on one machine got me into trouble. This caused me to try several alternate browsers. Here are some results:

aurora - shows up in PPM as arora; information button leads to wikipedia page unrelated to any browser.

chrome - On this one machine I can't seem to run any derivative of chromium, Google-chrome or Iron. In the case of the oldest version this is explained by an attempt to "exec chrome-linux" which does not exist.

Later versions seem to fail immediately, reporting "Illegal instruction" when run from a console.

Opera - PPM reports missing shared libraries, but the browser comes up. I haven't done much testing of it though.

The machine giving me trouble has an ASUS A7S8X-MX motherboard with an Athlon-XP 2500+, and 2GB of RAM. I've tried the integrated SiS 741 graphics and two different nVidia AGP cards. The graphics seems to work each way. I've run memtest86+ 4.20 through a full pass, taking an hour and 15 mins, without errors.

I do not have trouble on machines with the Intel Pentium 4, Atom or Celeron, or the AMD Athlon 64, Athlon II, Phenom, Phenom II. Everything except these browsers seems to work, with the exception of CPU frequency scaling (BIOS older than 2007). When I stress the processor I can get the temperature up to 58C, but this does not seem to correlate with this problem. Before I replaced the processor the previous one was running at higher temperatures.

My guess is that these builds are testing for some feature present in all the 64-bit architectures, but this traps as an illegal instruction on some AMD 32 bit processors. If the problem is in the graphics I am at a loss to explain how it can run TORCS, but not these browsers.

Otherwise, this looks like a great little Puppy machine for someone.

Any ideas?
playdayz
PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2012, 20:21    Post subject:

PupMenu 2.0

I thought radky had announced it in this thread but I can't find it. Anyway, it's cool--fun to just play with, provides a lot of information, and will appear in the upcoming Lupu Plus. Duh, the 4th message above this one Wink

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76713
bigpup
PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2012, 16:11    Post subject:

Something to consider using in next update.
Latest coreutils (v. 8-16, late March 2012)
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=77671
playdayz
PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2012, 12:54    Post subject:

Quote:
If you plan to combine forces with pemasu and make this the next logical path,

No, not me, it's pemasu's thing and whoever wants to participate. rerwin already has ideas.
rerwin
PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2012, 12:30    Post subject: Lupu-to-Upup strategy, mainlining boot-disk remastering

bigpup wrote:
If you plan to combine forces with pemasu and make this the next logical path, for Lucid Puppy, it would be very good idea.
But, it needs to start with all the features of Lucid Puppy already there. After that, just tweaking to fix bugs.
My idea for precise puppy (or whatever it ends up being named) is to package the unique lupu features as installable pets or built into woof. I am open to suggestions for organizing the packages.

Some parts might be the control center(s) and maybe boot-to-desktop if feasible. Please identify the features to preserve.

One thing I am considering is to make Lucid Pup's remastering of "boot disks" a visible feature. To do that, I would like input from those using the hidden capability in lupuplus and patch-8 to make these disks, particularly about anything more that should be done for that process such as clear out some directories like browser caches. There seems to be some interest in having this be generally available:
oui, in the Upup Precise thread, wrote:
As it starts fast and finds all main settings of my PC about himself I would be interesting to use it completely without save file!

Why: old puppy's under 1.1 did work so:

each day a fresh puppy. no change, no spy, no disturb Idea Rolling Eyes

I would remaster it once after I will have adapted my settings, create a /root/,mozilla/seamonkey with different absolute non critic and not sensible entries, a link in /root to /mnt/home/f/my instead of /root/my-documents and would never save somewhat after that in /root as I can do it directly hitting on the link my-documents Idea so

- I don't need some save file any more at all,
- have a system never changing in all details in the puppy file system
- have a system with highest confidentiality as no entry would stay in it after each shutdown, only the data I have entered intentionally manually before I did remaster!

To do it, I need a version without greeting at the begin of the session and without asking if I will save before shutting down!

What would be to do to avoid to start the greeting immediately after start and avoid the question if you want save before reboot or shutting down?
from: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=621529#621529
I would prepare an update to submit for woof, as part of the lupu features to go there.
Richard
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